Iraq

[stevesliva]

Still worth it, amiright?

[James]

I am curious who you are looking to engage with this. Otis does not post here, willy has been banned again and I hope you know my stance on this by now.

[riser3]

No disrespect to steve, that is the right question James. And now to go off topic. In other news, sadly it is raining here today, not that I can get out skiing. The forecasted inch of rain won't make for nice conditions tomorrow when I will be able to get out. My daughter begged and pleaded this morning until I relented and didn't send her on the Rotary Club's ski bus. I am such a softy. My youngest son I am sure will be ready tomorrow morning first thing with a snorkel and fins when we go up to the mountain for his program. He is all over it. What rub on wax for water?

[Teleman]

Should be soft by tomorrow Riser....Hoping the under hardpack will still hold up, if so the skiing could be decent....BC that is....Snow was way fast yesterday, doingXCd mostly a cruise into nowhere, seeing lots of "natural" things which conjures up lots of discussion....Twant about the arc yesterday!!!!! TM

[Baaahb]

There are hawks and doves. And then there are those who think one can make easy conclusions about international intervention. Who the F knows whether it was worth it, we have absolutely no way of knowing what would have been "but if". Who the F even knows what is really going on in the hearts and minds of the people. Foreign intervention is a bitch. You can't win if you intervene, you can't win if you stay out.

All you have is arguments. You don't have conclusions except in the most cut and dry situations. And there are almost no cut and dry situations. Take North Korea. The government should be replaced; it is an economic failure and makes the most irresponsible world statements. But it just ain't that easy. Take South Vietnam. We fight a major war, all but concede defeat, and twenty years later it's like we won.

[Nurse Ben]

Clearly it wasn't worth it, innocents were hurt, it stimulated animosity, it was based on a lie, kinda sad, but what's done is done.

If you believe, then there will be a reckoning...

[James]

The government should be replaced

Considering you don't live in Korea that is a pretty bold statement that is none of your business.

I don't think the question of when we should meddle in an other countries business is near as hard as you make it out to be. Even if you don't buy the it is none of our business argument the developed world has proven that about 95% of the time we are really bad at replacing governments. So even if our intentions are good and I would argue they most never are the end result is almost always bad.

I would love to hear Ben expand on the based on a lie comment. Nothing like taking a winning hand and killing it with ignorant political talking points.

[Baaahb]

Considering you don't live in Korea that is a pretty bold statement that is none of your business.

..... So even if our intentions are good and I would argue they most never are the end result is almost always bad.

If it's something that concerns the US government, then it is my business. One can, of course, take the position that any intervention is wrong, but I think it is the wrong approach and not even defensible on a principled basis, given the historic fluidity in what constitutes a "country" and thus what constitutes "intervention".

The end result is almost always bad because it follows a really bad situation. One can certainly fault many past US interventions, just as one can certainly fault many past US failures to intervene. It's simply almost never a simple matter.

[stevesliva]

I am curious who you are looking to engage with this. Otis does not post here, willy has been banned again and I hope you know my stance on this by now.

Doesn't really matter. Just trying to see who might pop up to argue that the sky ain't blue.

[Todd Eastman]

The wars were good as a way to reduce unemployment as the economy was crashed into the rocks...

[Chugach001]

Thomas Friedman has a good editorial in the NYT about the new chaos in Iraq. Yes, Obama is lame but Bush F'ed this whole thing up. Sometimes dictators are the stabilizing force we should embrace.

[ghostofcarl]

Oh yeah.....worth every copulating nickel !!!

[BillyFromTheHills]

Sometimes dictators are the stabilizing force we should embrace.

My dad used to say the same thing. He worked in industrial development and real estate (and possibly a shadowy US intelligence agency) during the 60's-80's. It pissed me off to no end when I was in college, but now I see what he was talking about. I think sometimes you get the government that you deserve, or the one that you can handle, or that you need.

He was also a WW2 vet, fighting against fascist dictators...go figure

[riser3]

My dad used to say the same thing. He worked in industrial development and real estate (and possibly a shadowy US intelligence agency) during the 60's-80's. It pissed me off to no end when I was in college, but now I see what he was talking about. I think sometimes you get the government that you deserve, or the one that you can handle, or that you need.

He was also a WW2 vet, fighting against fascist dictators...go figure

So Chile deserved Pinochet? That's just plain sick and twisted. I came across National Geographic from October 1973 the other week. That was an eerie read.

[BillyFromTheHills]

Not exactly, riser. But somebody, or some historical circumstance, with the acquiescence of part of the population, put him in power. My statement was not a hard and fast rule; far from it.