rugged touring/xc dh. who loves it? why?

[meadowskipper]

big fan here. either out the back door, at a local lost ski area, or up in the bigger hills to the north.

freedom, simplicity, constant movement, adventure. 4x4 for the feet. up, down, all around. tour, turn, repeat.

[Baaahb]

You know I hear ya. My go-to gear are leathers, 3-pins and boundless. Something wonderful about picking one's direction by the pitch of the terrain, gradually climbing, taking turns when the heart desires, and taking the roller coaster down, not sure where it'll end up.

[meadowskipper]

amen to that. so excited to get back at it. amazing how much of a workout you can get in just and hour or 2, yet sometimes not even realize it cuz you're so distracted by all the beauty that surrounds you. and how bout those turns? find a pitch, drop it, find an open slope, farm it. when the snow is good, the possibilities are nearly endless.

my 5 season old outbounds 70-60-55 with partial edge are pretty much smoked. the binders NNN-BC manual and alpine BC 1550 boots are fine and wlll be used with some new outback 68 skis. had thought about picking up some scarpa Wasatch 75mm leathers, but not sure they available for 14'.

[Quadzilla]

Well, if anybody has read my posts over the years I have always advocated fishscale skis and have advocated the bigger end of the fishscale spectrum. So, I have had Boundless skis since they came out maybe 15 years ago and have had maybe 6 pairs of them over the years in various sizes and binding configurations. My current pair are 189's with G3 bindings. I use these early season putting miles on in usually crappy early season snow. I also have a pair of 180 Voile Vector BC's mounted with X2's. I ski both of these skis with T2 Ecos. So, I am at the end of the "rugged touring spectrum especially with the boots but thats the only boots I have. The Vector BC's are the real deal for any touring or skiing any terrain. I use the BC's for car shuttle where I can climb(with skins), lap steep terrain and then ski huge vert to a parked car upwards of 4,000 vert below with a big slog or low angle at the bottom. Anyway, I advocate this type of gear either the Boundless catagory or the Vector BC catagory to beginners as the gear is stable and easy to ride. So, they bypass the flail factor of learning old school tele on E99's ect. For me, I have very good gear but I use my Fishscales 1/2 the time. I ski with Baaahb quite a bit and we will test his new hips fishscaling........

[Baaahb]

It's not a big step to my next set-up: Excursions with the Rossy-125, but a significant difference on the way down. I really should take them out more. Ron, I hope you and Lynn are gettin passes at Heavenly this year. I'm looking forward to testing the new gear on the white ribbon of death.

[meadowskipper]

for the folks that are on wider (over 80mm at widest point) waxless skis. do you spend much time on flatter ground on tours? if so, do you find the wider more shaped skis to really "dog" it when not just mostly on all up/all down touring?

[Danno]

somebody in Maine registered with the name meadowskipper. I is going to be confused.

[meadowskipper]

lots of meadowskip'n round these here parts

[Dostn8r]

I've tried a fair number of the fatter waxless metal edged skis. Pretty much anything over 80mm at the waist is my preference. For most tours I prefer the Voile Vector BC. That rockered tip is really great for breaking trail on the morning after a fresh, deep dump. Skinny XC skis are only okay for following a trail, not breaking it. In downhill though, the Vector gets squirrelly, and it is easy to overturn. I found that I need to move the bindings (Switchbacks) back about 1.5 cm. That's a lot better, but I think someone needs to come up with a ski that has the trail breaking ability of the Vector, but skis more like BD's Aspect, or K2's Wayback.

Agree with Baaahb and Quadzilla - this sort of ski rocks. I probably use these for 1/3 to 1/2 my days on skis.

Waxless Metal Edged skis reviewed here.

One other note. Originally I thought the free-pivot might prevent good kick on the flats. Not so. And for breaking trail in the deep, a free-pivot is WAY superior to 3-pins since it lets the tip float up. 3-pins have a lot less resistance than a cable binding, but a lot more than a frictionless pivot.

[Baaahb]

MS- the fatter skis can "bog" you down significantly on flat ground, especially if there is an existing track narrower than your ski, but also if you are making fresh track, especially in light snow. if I am going to be cruising meadows with no descents more than 10 degrees, I'll take my waxless no-metal-edge traditional x-c gear

[Quadzilla]

for the folks that are on wider (over 80mm at widest point) waxless skis. do you spend much time on flatter ground on tours? if so, do you find the wider more shaped skis to really "dog" it when not just mostly on all up/all down touring?

For me touring on waxless skis, they all feel similar slogging and similar amount of glide on each step wither it is 68 or 95 underfoot as those are the two sizes I use. The big difference is having a free pivot vs any restricted binding like pins or cables. Free pivot takes less effort especially if you are using a plastic boot. The Vector BC's slog very well in deep and or soft snow and especially well with Free pivot. Reason being a lot of tip rise and the free pivot combo just rises up over snow so you are on top and not plowing thru. So, I guess, bottomline is that a trade off of bigger boots and stouter bindings is equalized by free pivot and tip rocker. WTBS, I am talking about slogging on/in wild snow, not about skating or classic striding on well packed trails. There is a huge difference slogging along using skins verses fatter fishscales. When you put skins on it feels like you are dragging a bucket especially if you fishscaled a pretty long approach and then add skins for a climb. Another big difference is decending very low angle slopes on runouts, the Vector BC's will plane up and motor and skiers on smaller skis will still be slogging. Anyway, I don't spend much time on packed down trails or full days on the flats, if so I might use lesser gear, I really like the Vector BC's as I can pretty much tour anything from low angle to classic Tahoe BC decents and hardly ever wish I had brought something else.

[Quadzilla]

I've tried a fair number of the fatter waxless metal edged skis. Pretty much anything over 80mm at the waist is my preference. For most tours I prefer the Voile Vector BC. That rockered tip is really great for breaking trail on the morning after a fresh, deep dump. Skinny XC skis are only okay for following a trail, not breaking it. In downhill though, the Vector gets squirrelly, and it is easy to overturn. I found that I need to move the bindings (Switchbacks) back about 1.5 cm. That's a lot better, but I think someone needs to come up with a ski that has the trail breaking ability of the Vector, but skis more like BD's Aspect, or K2's Wayback.

Agree with Baaahb and Quadzilla - this sort of ski rocks. I probably use these for 1/3 to 1/2 my days on skis.

Waxless Metal Edged skis reviewed here.

One other note. Originally I thought the free-pivot might prevent good kick on the flats. Not so. And for breaking trail in the deep, a free-pivot is WAY superior to 3-pins since it lets the tip float up. 3-pins have a lot less resistance than a cable binding, but a lot more than a frictionless pivot.

Not too squirelly for me dropping in off Waterhouse Pk

[meadowskipper]

good stuff y'all!!!

guess i'd put myself in the skinny, NNN, light boot crowd. spent time in west virginny (guys ski insane on the wicked light/skinny down there) and northern ne. not a ton of in between terrain out here. either hill/dale/tour/turns, or the presidential range where it's bigger gear with skins, crampons, whippet, and avy gear. ascents/decents down wv way are anywhere from 1-2k of vert. I did try an excursion/tenth mtn (68mm underfoot) and a chili binder. ok for going up/down, but not much fun on the rollers or flat ground. ended up sticking with my 70-60-65 outbounds and NNN-BC for the the balance that I prefer. I may have to try out some heavier duty stuff again tho after reading your unput.

[Ziggy]

The Fischers have gone back to a pretty aggressive +ve base pattern on the new S-Bounds cp. the -ve on the Boundless. The 112 S-Bound is a bit of a slug doing kick and glide in heavy snow but it has more snap in the turns than the Madshus Annums/Guides.

[climbhoser]

Yes! I've spent much of my life on skis, and while I enjoy skiing big mountains and ripping, I am drawn to the aesthetic of minimalism. The turns that give me the most goosebumps are those executed on the most minimal gear, which to date means Boundless, 3-pins and leathers.

I figure you can either increase the terrain or decrease the gear to create a novel challenge. While living in Michigan finding challenging terrain was a non starter. I learned to go further with less, enjoy the stillness of the winter woods, and to truly surf my skis with just enough connection to survive.

I learned technique counts for a lot, and it's hard to keep it together when the going gets rough. If I could pick one type of skiing to do the rest of my life it would be XCD.