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Scarpa T2 vs. Garmont SynerG

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  • Scarpa T2 vs. Garmont SynerG

    I am new here, so apologies if this has been discussed.

    I have a 10 year old pair of Syner Gs and other than being 10 years old, they have been great boots and allowed me to progress.

    This year I decided to take the plunge on a new pair of boots. I read many reviews, could not find a pair of comparable Garmonts and went ahead with the Scarpa T2s.

    My first days on the Scarpas were a real bummer. The boots are fitted correctly but I am feeling they are too soft. I am 5'6" 175lbs, athletic build and have been Telemark skiing for over 12 years now. My ski's are Black Diamond Verdicts. My style and terrain are hard charging groomers or aggressive tree/bump skiing.

    All the reviews I read on the Scarpas said the T2 could handle today's bigger skis. My verdicts are 4 years old, but still 103 under foot, so moderate buy today's standard with respect to width.

    I am feeling like I bought the wrong boots, after 4 days, ugh.. I called TelemarkSki.com today and they said I could sell them on their trade website but no return or exchange possible. My next option I am thinking is contact Scarpa and maybe see if I can trade in for something more stiff like the T-race.

    The Scarpas do fit better than the Garmont's but the Garmonts are like 4 wheel drive and the Scarpas feel like I am skiing on skinny bike tires.

    Any thoughts would be appreciated.
    Last edited by Caribou Sandstorm; 5 April 2014, 06:04 PM.

  • #2
    Not sure why you want to go from the t-2 to the t-race - why not the t-1? I skied a synergy may years ago, and while the uppers where definitely more burly than the then T-2 (T-2X?), the bellows were really soft and basically just collapsed at the merest hint of flexing - I really preferred the fit and bellows stiffness of the t-2. If you have a scarpa foot, seems like the T-1 would be better than the T-race, at least initially. Oh, and 10 years in the same boot?!?! Did you replace the liners at least twice? If not, you're not holding up your end of the contract . And if you really like charging groomers, have you considered NTN freerides?

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    • #3
      I'm with Paul. T1 for sure. T-Race might be overkill. I hope my review didn't give you the impression they were a stout enough boot for Verdicts, although I'll admit it might have...

      It is big enough to drive fat skis, but small enough to make touring a delight, not a sufferfest. And it keeps the same power and flex properties, albiet improved from the original T1, thanks to an articulated bellows, refinements that come from multi-density shells, metal buckles, and moldable liners. For super phat skis it’s a tad weak, but you can always equalize that equation with an Axl underfoot.
      IOW, the T2 could be enough boot for the Verdict, but only with an Axl, Vice, HH, or Enzo, not a Switchback or O1.

      ain't no turn like tele!

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      • #4
        I went from T2s to Garmont Syner-G - T2s are very "tour oriented". Especially the older versions.

        My experience is very dated - but the T2 basic design has not changed to my eye - and it is a myriad of design choices that make it tour oriented.

        The T2 is beefed up (no longer has plastic strap) - taller liner - but still largely the same mold.

        I should not say this, but my sense is T2 lends itself to a more mellow skiing style (flames ahoy!).

        In fact at first I did not understand your post - as I initially misread it as the notion of Garmont to T2 was so out of my mind set (read it as T1).

        I wish the Garmont Syner-G and Ener-G were still made ...

        -r

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        • #5
          I agree, if you want a stiffer boot, go with the T1s. It's plenty stiff but still comfortable, billed as having "zero rocker sole" for "immediate edge initiation," and has an aggressive forward position.

          That being said, at the end of last year, I picked up a pair of T1s and split my time this season on T1s and T2 Ecos playing with my skis and a friend's skis. I used both boots on skis ranging from 86mm to 113mm with Voile Switchbacks (I tried the X2s twice and prefer the less active original version). Overall, the T1s are more powerful and provide a sturdier / more stable ride. However, I found the T2 Ecos more comfortable, lighter for touring, and definitely more than adequate for driving those skis. So I sold the T1s.

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          • #6
            After years on T-2s going back to the mid-90s I got a pair of SynerGs 4 or 5 years ago. The biggest difference between the two boots in my mind is that they flex differently. Older T2s, and the new ones I bought a year-and-a-half ago, have a generalized flex: the boots move (to varying degrees) almost from tip to top when I bend a knee and lean into them. The SynerGs are stiffer above the bellows and flex more specifically at the bellows. This difference I think is one reason that T2s tend to feel more comfortable to many skiers. The counterpoint is that the SynerGs more readily focus the force of your leg into a specific movement of the ski--four wheel drive as you put it.

            From my point of view, which in some ways is the mirror image of yours, the transition between the two boots was challenging. They do ski differently and I have habits built on T2s. In fact, I never completed the transition, because I bought a pair of TX Pros and almost immediately liked them better than either T2s or SynerGs, for the combination of a bellows-specific solid connection to the ski and the comfort of a soft and accessible flex.

            So I guess my advice, FWIW, is that T2s can drive the skis you have, but you probably would have to work at adapting to them. Most of us ski for fun, and you have no obligation to work at it. I've never skied T1s, but they may make more sense. Also FWIW, I hope Scarpa will help you out, but it doesn't sound like your T2s are defective in a way that Scarpa has to fix--more that they didn't turn out to be the boot for you

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            • #7
              Here is a claim - I have never seen ski patrol on T2s.

              -r

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              • #8
                Over the years I have owned and skied various models of T2's and three buckle T1's and TRace. I also skied first and second generation Verdicts as my primary resort ski. First, IMO, the Dark Blue Verdicts, the ones the OP has? is a stiff heavy resort ski that needs a stout active binding and a stout four buckle resort boot. I found that I had to go to Rid stiff carts with my 01's and initially I skied the Verdicts with a three buckle T1 that I thought was marginal and went to a BD Push which I found adequate to ski the Verdicts decently on resort snow. So, IMO, bottomline is that the BD Verdict, atleast the older version Blue is a strong resort ski and needs strong boots/bindings.

                As far as Scarpa boots, the latest generation T2 Ecos is the strongest skiing T2 out of all the generation T2's. It has a design similar to older three buckle T1's but with lighter weight. I would say that they almost as powerful as the older T1's but not quite. So, IMO, not the best choice for driving a BD Verdict at the resort for a guy who has twelve years teleskiing at a decent resort.
                Last edited by Quadzilla; 6 April 2014, 08:47 AM.
                "Just say no to groomed snow"

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                • #9
                  T2 is NOT enough boot for older Verdicts. Sure some people may say they can drive a ski as big and stiff as old Verdicts with T2s, but they are just rationalizing. How do I know this? Because I was one.

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                  • #10
                    This is really helpful feedback, thanks a bunch everyone.

                    My goal is to progress in my technique and I really am hoping to find a boot that helps me do that. BTW, I am using Hammer Head bindings. I had a feeling I was looking at being raised on Garmonts, then switching to Scarpa might be a challenge. I live in Denver and my Land Cruiser mechanic/tele buddy's shop is not too far from the Scarpa offices in Boulder, so thought I would try to keep some money local..

                    Also seems like Scarpa is the soup de jour, presently for many.

                    I am not as well versed as I should be on the different sections (bellows section?) of the boots. But the toe box is collapsing on the Garmonts. Which is why I finally decided to make the switch. The Garmont is sturdier at the heel box. Flex from shin to toe seems equal with both boots.

                    One thing I did not ask you guys, is the foot print while skiing, which other than the overall softness of the T2 was the other noticeable change. On my Garmonts, it feels like I am on the ball of my foot with toes bent (more natural feel) when engaged in a turn, I like this feel. With my T2s, it feels like I am on my tippy toes when engaged in the turn. Is this just a matter of new boots that will break in in the toe box flex (T2) or is this not going to change with any Scarpa boot I choose?

                    Also, these are the old Verdicts, dark blue. I have had two pair of these. This is only my second season on this pair. I might ask you all about skis in a separate post, but I see how these also relate to my boot issues at hand.
                    Last edited by Caribou Sandstorm; 6 April 2014, 09:37 AM.

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                    • #11
                      The bellows will soften over time but T2 Eco bellows are not that stiff new as compared to other brands or other Scarpa boots. Since you have HH bindings you may want to move the pivot points back a notch or two and make sure you have those bindings set with a lot of preload on the spring. This will engage the bellows sooner and give some additional leverage to bend the boots.
                      "Just say no to groomed snow"

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                      • #12
                        For those who miss the Garmont SynerG and EnerG - Scott is bringing that mold back. It isn't either, more of a hybrid mix between the two called the Synergy. What is most similar is the soft flex of the bellows and the last. The Voodoo, and Prophet, have/had a narrower last in the forefoot. This new Synergy returns, more than less, to the old, wider last in the forefoot. For driving skis wider than 100mm at the waist it may be enough, but a Scarpa T1/T-Race or Black Diamond Push, or Crispi RX would be better suited to fatter skis.

                        ain't no turn like tele!

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cesare View Post
                          T2 is NOT enough boot for older Verdicts. Sure some people may say they can drive a ski as big and stiff as old Verdicts with T2s, but they are just rationalizing. How do I know this? Because I was one.
                          My money says that's right. I've never skied Verdicts, but it appears they have a metal layer and weigh over 9 lb at 170 cm. I think the general guideline of bigger than 100mm at the waist means better to get a taller, stiffer boot is good, but I think weight of the skis is a pretty significant factor too. E.g., Voile Chargers are 112 at the waist and, IMO, they pair well with T2 Ecos (they weigh just under 8 lb at 181 cm) -- quite fun skis.

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                          • #14
                            Caribou... I think Bent Gate, Golden & Wilderness Sports, Dillon have T1's for demo. May be worth a test drive? If you like, most likely can get a good deal.

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                            • #15
                              Well, Scarpa shut me down, no chance to trade up and pay the difference after a phone call. I sent them a complaint, we'll see if they work with me. Otherwise, I am going to go to every site and write a review about the boots. Not to blast Scarpa, but to warn folks that the boots are not as stiff as advertised in being able to handle today's mid-level 100+mm under foot skis. Essentially, I just paid 500 for a sweet pair of liners.

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