Garmont Prophet Gen 1, 2, 3 and Scott Voodoo NTN

[whitehonky]

OK... I know this was discussed in depth in previous websites.

But... tell me, what is the difference between these boot generations in regard to:

1. Stiffness of boot
2. Stiffness of bellows
3. Fit of shell/liner
4. Quality of liner

And most importantly, what is the overall fit of the last 2013 generation of the Garmont Prophet?

If you want, you can compare fit across brands. I'm in the BD Custom right now and find the overall boot too voluminous, especially in the heel and around the ankle (my biggest issue), even in a proper shell fit. Black and red 4 buckle T1's were great in the heel and ankle, but needed to be punched out in the toe box.

Many thanks in advance!

[Dostie]

To my knowledge the Prophet wasn't change at all, except maybe to replace the EZ-Lock buckles with cheaper ones until next season's version wherein the last is widened a smidgen or two. Otherwise, this review should answer most of your Qs.

Stiffness of bellows:

the bellows of the Prophet [are like] "coffee filters."

Fit of shell/liner:

The Prophet has a kind of odd balance of dimensions...a performance fit around your toes while favoring those with a high instep.

[whitehonky]

Thanks Dostie. I did read that and have taken the comments to heart. Just looking for further insight.

I do worry about lack of heel retention as noted by some of the comments below your article.

But I do like cuff dominant boots - my favourite part of the BD Custom, with a strong 130 flex up top and a fairly forgiving bellows once broken in.

So I'm sort of between in regard to your comments. But pricing is pretty great right now on my size...

Ergo, the questions.

[chamonix]

I have been on the Garmont Prophet size 28 for 3 seasons. with Super feet Kork footbeds. It is sort of a love-hate relationship. I believe they are not the latest (Garmont) version; they have a silver colored walk/ski mode forward lean plate.
Hates;
occasional toe jam, at the big toe on my right foot. I finally had a shop grind out the pebax a bit in the right boot shell, for more toe room and the toe fit is much better. Heel lift, and foot sliding forward in the shell, was an issue but now I absolutely reef down the buckles, on the upper shell. This seems to help hold the heel down and back a bit better. It is really hard to get your foot in and out of the boot, you must hold the shell halves apart. One other minor thing, walking in snow with a warm boot shell, the bottom surface of the duck butt seems to build up a hard snow layer you have to remove before stepping into the binding. The boot does lack an instep buckle, so it is hard to hold your heel down.
Likes:
The upper shell is stiffer; better edge control than my Scarpa TX or TX Pros. I have a performance fit. This boot really performs at the Resort, with my Mantras, or Blizzard Cochise, great edge control on hard snow days! With thin socks (and the ground out right boot toe) fit is now comfortable all day at the Resort. Though I probably wouldn't take them to steeper terrain out West, or on a long skin day. My last Western trip, to Fernie with them I lost a big toe nail. But this was before I had the right toe box ground out. I was also skiing them a bit at Fernie in walk mode, big mistake as my foot slid forward more in the shell.

It looks like the new Scott NTN Voodos have a loop for safety leashes. This would let you tour , say with Freedoms without ski brakes. Mine don't have a loop to clip into.
The Palua liner seems to be warm; I can ski the boot on the coldest days. Liner hasn't packed out, in this tight fitting shell. Not the all-day-touring-comfort of my Scarpa boots with Intuition liners though.

Finally while the Scarpa Tx Pro has a softer flex, especially in the upper shell, with the instep buckle I can get more effective heel hold down, while I loosen upper cuff buckles for touring.
When I tour in these Prophets (max skinning time maybe one hour?) I leave all the buckles somewhat tight, so my foot won't slide around in the boot and develop blisters. Most touring I have done on this boot is with NT Spikebulldogs, which has a great tour mode.
Here are some pictures of my boots; maybe someone can figure out if they are Gen 1 or Gen 2?

my 2c worth.


Good luck, WH!

[silow]

I would stay away , the toe box collapsing problem has not improved over the years : the toe box collapses during lower flexion of the boot in binding , and the toes bang against the lower thick end of the shell .
I got a black toe nail in less than a day skiing the black and red garmont prophet . It's a shame they fitted nice with an intuition powerwrap+ liner .
size 29.5

[whitehonky]

Thanks all. I have decided NOT to pursue this boot. Actually, I just got a new footbed and some work on the BD Customs which seems to be supporting the ankle better, and am hoping to squeak one more season out of them prior to the NTN move, as it seems the Scarpa's are the best for me, but the pricing is not.

I appreciate the comments here and via PM.

[Tele 'til You're Smelly]

I guess I missed it- the Prophet became re-branded as the Scott Voodoo this year?

Why they have not added an instep buckle is beyond me- in 2 years of use I couldn't stop toe bang because of that and had to ditch them. Too bad because a great boot otherwise.

[whitehonky]

Thanks to this forum and the PMs received, I gave up on the Garmont's. No local stock on NTN led me to web-sources, as after the last 3 days of skiing, I can't continue to pad and fill my BD Customs to fit my narrow ankle. Causing too many issues.

As such, I've ordered a TX Comp (hopefully sizing fits pretty much like they have in the past and similar to the AT Boots, which I did get my feet into locally for a shell fit) and the NTN Freeride and a couple mounting plates. Next season (and perhaps the rest of this season) will mark my foray away from 22D. Stoked and nervous.

BTW, Freerides and Freedoms are $249 online right now and I don't carry guilt as none of my bricks and mortar shops had any stock. I will likley pay my favourite for proper fitting services.

[James]

I hope you like them. I can't speak for Scarpa AT boots but take a T-Race add quite a bit more volume in the toe box and a little more volume in the the rest of the boot and you will have a TX Comp or Pro. A T-Race was a very performance fit for me especially in the toe box and a TX Comp fits me perfectly with a little more of a comfort fit.

I will be curious how you adjust to them. Most people I know had trouble getting in to a true tele stance at first and would end up doing a bit of a fake a mark with both thighs in an alpine stance. It takes a while to break in the boots, bindings and yourself.

[whitehonky]

I hope you like them. I can't speak for Scarpa AT boots but take a T-Race add quite a bit more volume in the toe box and a little more volume in the the rest of the boot and you will have a TX Comp or Pro. A T-Race was a very performance fit for me especially in the toe box and a TX Comp fits me perfectly with a little more of a comfort fit.

I will be curious how you adjust to them. Most people I know had trouble getting in to a true tele stance at first and would end up doing a bit of a fake a mark with both thighs in an alpine stance. It takes a while to break in the boots, bindings and yourself.

Yeah... I'm not just jumping in, as I've read a lot on the adjustment. I think it's similar to any big jump/change in gear. From 3 pins, to G3's and Superloops, to Linkens, and then to HH's/AXLs. Same with leather, to early t2's, to t-1s to t-race. Each one has amounted to an adjusted style and variation in the bellows break, binding activity point, etc. I think if you focus on technique first and do the same technique regardless of gear, you can learn a "new" method more easily. By this I mean, butt to heal, using the cuff to break the bellows and not relying on the gear to do this for you.

I expect NTN to be the biggest change for sure... but I'm ok with that.

I might not mount them this year if I can get my ankle through the last month of skiing. Then I have all kinds of time to wear them over the summer and really work the bellows, get the bindings mounted, and get used to the activity point.

As for fit, the AT boots fit well and I did notice a more roomy toe-box. They are still the tightest and narrowest in the ankle out of all NTN products - at least from the spec's, which is key to me. On the T-series boot, I always had to get the toe box punched out a bit, so a bit more volume in the toebox is great both in height and width. I've sized down to the smaller liner in the same shell size. The instep buckle/strap is key and so happy to be back to that.

Fingers crossed.

[chamonix]

WH, it will be fun, much more edge control. My first NTN boot was the relatively soft yellow TX boot (my Ener-G boots were worn out) and I really like the Scarpa boots with Intuition liners. Simply rolling the ball of my foot in the Scarpa TX gave me amazing edge control. At first I skied these boots on my Rapid Transits. with the NT Telebulldog binding. Later I went to Freerides and the Prophet for even more carving control at the resort, and fat skis.
First time you ski on the Freerides, it will feel like your heel is still locked down! Your heel will come up maybe 2 inches, then the toe will load up, and bellows start to compress. .Weird. I like the feel of the Freedoms more now.
If you are used to really dropping a knee, you will/may get some toe crunch in the bellows.
Pretty soon you will adapt to a more upright stance, but will have lots of power, especially with the Comps.

Have fun!

[tele.skier]

Thanks to this forum and the PMs received, I gave up on the Garmont's. No local stock on NTN led me to web-sources, as after the last 3 days of skiing, I can't continue to pad and fill my BD Customs to fit my narrow ankle. Causing too many issues.

As such, I've ordered a TX Comp (hopefully sizing fits pretty much like they have in the past and similar to the AT Boots, which I did get my feet into locally for a shell fit) and the NTN Freeride and a couple mounting plates. Next season (and perhaps the rest of this season) will mark my foray away from 22D. Stoked and nervous.

BTW, Freerides and Freedoms are $249 online right now and I don't carry guilt as none of my bricks and mortar shops had any stock. I will likley pay my favourite for proper fitting services.

You're going to love how NTN skis. My prediction is, if you get the correct power tubes and set them up so they feel similar to your previous bindings, you'll get a permagrin because of how solid it feels to you on the very first run. It will take a few runs to adjust to them. After a few days, you'll forget about them and just ski....

If I was you and you have a pair of spring skis, mount an NTN plate on them. The boot/binding interface is more underfoot with NTN than a duckbill system so the center of your edge pressure feels more directly underfoot than 75mm bindings... NTN mounted hardpack skis rail on consolidated snow

[repete]

This season I switched from red buckle T1s to TX Pros and Freerides. I found new old stock Pros, the yellow and black ones. I transferred my Plug Liners and Booster strap from the T1 to the Pros, plenty of power and the right amount of flex in those boots. The major difference for me was that even on the loosest fit I couldn't tighten the toe buckle on the T1 otherwise my feet would cramp badly, now the Pros have a little too much room, oh well. With my liners and Booster strap these boots are not soft.

It did take me longer than I thought it would to break in the boots, I had toe pinch with the bellows that has now thankfully disappeared. Despite some initial days of doubt I do not miss the duckbill, it's better performing than a 75mm setup and I really like having ski brakes. It took some days getting things worked in but I wouldn't switch back.

[Nick D]

I haven't skied Axls but I think you will certainly be blown away by the increased control of NTN. As was mentioned, it takes a few runs to adjust. My first day out on TX Pros and Freedoms was a tour up Diamond Head and on the down I couldn't do a tele turn to save myself. Mind you the p turns were great and I find now when the snow or terrain get challenging p turns are so much easier than on my 7tms.

[Dostie]

...Pretty soon you will adapt to a more upright stance, but will have lots of power, especially with the Comps.

You're going to love how NTN skis. My prediction is, if you get the correct power tubes and set them up so they feel similar to your previous bindings, you'll get a permagrin because of how solid it feels to you on the very first run. It will take a few runs to adjust to them. After a few days, you'll forget about them and just ski....

I think you will certainly be blown away by the increased control of NTN.

Ah, but you will definitely miss a free pivot when touring.