Scarpa T1: different generation, different stiffness?

[Rodbelan]

I would like to know if there is a difference in stiffness between the different T1—the black, the red, the grey ones... I had the Bumble bee that was too stiff for my taste... I've heard that they are not all the same... Thanks again!

[Paul Lutes]

You forgot the first gen purples! For clarification's sake, I will refer to the T1 generations historically: the first generations (purples) were med-soft, the second (black) were very soft, the third generation (bumble bees) were relatively stiff (could have been the liners, though - I HATED those liners), the 4th generation (black/silvers) were mod-stiff, and the fifth generations (black with red buckles), the last T1s I owned, were mod-stiff. Not sure what you mean by
"red ones" ...... T-races?

[cesare]

That seems pretty accurate. I might just say that the first two generations were softer than subsequent ones and that the 4 buckle T1s ski a little stiffer laterally than the 3 buckle ones just in terms of leverage. I'll also add that when I first got my black and silver 3 buckle boots I thought they were super stiff. I don't think that anymore. With time you will get used to and figure out how to ski just about anything.

[repete]

How many days have you had on the T1? I recently switched out from the red buckle T1, the only negative for me was the fit of the toe box was very tight.

[whitehonky]

I had bumblebee, black and silver 3 buckle, and black and red four buckle.

I found that the 4 buckle was somewhat stiffer fore-aft than the other two, and far more laterally stiff. I really liked this boot. Good stock liner too. The best part of Scarpa is the solid instep strap that sucks the heel in, but it's also the weak link, as it's easy to sever this strap over time and have to replace.

Repete, I also found the toe box in red black to be tighter than previous generations - esp. 5th metatarsal. A good boot fitter can blow this out to relieve the pressure.

[Rodbelan]

I should have been more precise... I am more interested in bellow stiffness or suppleness... Is there a gradation from more supple to more stiff—in all the T1 generations?

[cesare]

I don't have any engineering expertise to back up my opinion, but I think the bellows, or the upper of the boot, contributes little to the forward flex at the ball of foot. That is mostly the sole and the amount of leverage the cuff provides. Being something of a tortion box, the upper does add tortional stiffness. So when I talk about the stiffness of the boot, I am speaking in general about the overall feel of the boot--how it feels to ski it. I can only go so far in comparing the forward flexing differences due to having skied the boots I have skied in a wide variety of bindings with no binding in common across all of them. About as far as I will go is to say the T1 of today is stiffer than T1s past... but not by a whole lot.

[James]

I agree. If you thought the Bumblebee was to stiff none of the newer ones are gong to feel softer in the bellows or any other part of the boot. I also agree with whitehonky's comment about the best part of Scarpa boots being the instep strap. FWIW Scarpa changed this strap on all their bigger boots because it was the weak link as far as snapping in half. I liked the ratchet mechanism on the old ones better

[Caribou Sandstorm]

I have tried the T2s this year and found them to be pretty soft, my only point of comparison is my old pair of Garmont SynerGs. Felt as though they washed out alot with my Black Diamond Verdicts underfoot. The heal to mid foot section feels pretty flexible in the T2s, would the T1s be stiffer in this section of the boot?

[James]

Yes, while I think a good skier could ski Verdicts with the T-2 the T-1 is a much better match IMO. I am not up to date on every Verdict ever made but think most of them are fat and stiff enough to warrant a bigger boot especially in less then ideal conditions. FYI the last is not the same on the T-2 and T-1. The T-2 is more narrow at least in the toe box.

[cesare]

Disagree with that last statement, James. T1 is the narrow, low volume Scarpa last. T2 is a wide, high volume last. It's a big difference, especially with the T2Eco.

And the Verdict in any iteration is too much ski for a T2 or a Synergy. Once you get past 100 mm underfoot a good skier can ski the skis, but they will feel dead and unresponsive, slow edge to edge. If you are talking about the orange, non-rockered Verdicts, they are a moderately stiff ski that is an especially poor match with a T2.

[Caribou Sandstorm]

Older Blue Verdicts, 108 underfoot, I thought they were 103 but just looked. The SynerGs felt like plenty of boot most of the time but T2s definitely are not. T1s sound like a better choice but kind of leaning to T-race. Sorry for the hijak.