Scarpa F1 sizing questions (old bellow version)

[dschane]

Good insights, bobby, thanks.

P.S. what screws did you use for the Michael Bolt-ons?

[bobbytooslow]

I feel your frustration, brother. I personally prefer the way the bellows/sole flex in the F1 Race and F1 Carbon. As Allan has pointed out, there's one less layer than in the regular F1 (and presumably the F3). I'm sure the stiffer ones can be broken in just fine.

You are correct about the lack of stiffness in the shin area. When I'm skiing hard riding the chairlift, I throw on an old T-Race power strap, and place an old plastic tongue (T3?) under the cuff and instep buckle. Looks goofy, but they ski great, so whatever.

As for sizing, I'd recommend trying to find your standard TX size. If they end up being a little roomy, throw a different liner in there; it'll give you a little more support anyway. I've had success with my old T2X liners.

Here are some 26.5 F1 Races on Boulder Craigslist (likely a 301mm BSL). I wear a 28.0 TX (316mm BSL) and 11.0 Nike, and these would probably give me a nice "race" fit for fitness laps and quick tours.

https://boulder.craigslist.org/spo/d/boulder-scarpa-f1-race-t-boots-265/6794094665.html

[dschane]

Bump.

Given the lack of new boots coming in the next 2 years, I'm on the hunt for an F1 and then will listen to Michael Bolton (argh) while bolting him on.

So, used F1s seem the easiest to find. F1 Race less so and F1 Carbon is a unicorn. Besides weight, any pros to the Race or Carbon? Are they noticeably worse for the ski down given the lack of stiffness in the shin area? I'd personally rather have that stiffness on the down than be uber light on the way up but essentially skiing some potentially steep and schwaggy conditions in the modern-day equivalent to leather.

And for sizing -- it sounds like for some, the size remains the same compared to their Tx boot size; for others, they went down a size; and for others, they went up a size? If so, fuuuuuuck.

[dschane]

That's a good point. I still have the Kreuz on some super light and skinny skis and that's what I'd pair with the F1s, should I ever get my hands on a pair (not holding my breath). I might try them with the Lynx if/when those arrive along with the Bolt-on plastic gizmo. Otherwise, I have a pair of Tx's that carry a small weight penalty but ski like a dream.

[Allan Fici]

If this is directed to me, I haven't purchased them yet. There's some Italian store that has them, and there was a link somewhere in one of these pages on this site. I think they are 400 Euros. Tough to decide whether to jump now or wait until 2021, 2022, or 2023 when Scarpa, Scott, or Crispi offers up a new line-up of boots. Someone should try to convince other companies (La Sportiva?) to enter the mix. It's a gamble on us telemarkers, but with the explosion (perhaps saturation) of AT boots, a little risk may be in order.

Are you still skiing your Kreuzspitze TTS rig? One negative of the OG F1 as im sure you know, is the toe shape only works in tech toe bindings. So even if you add the Michael bolt on duckbutt the boots won’t work in the Outlaw or other frame bindings. There are still plenty of binding options to use the F1.

[Allan Fici]

I’m glad that Jason chimed in here as I think his analogy on this F1 sizing and fit is the correct way to look at them with regards to the shells and liners of the different versions. He stated that the 7UK shell size is the best fit for him as did Bjorn. And since it sounds like the three of us have the same size foot, I also realized that 7UK is best fit for me but did not come to that conclusion until I had my F1’s for some time. Since I purchased mine from Scarpa NA back in 2011 the details are fuzzy at how I ended up with the 7.5 UK 26.5MP size. Ultimately, I should have purchased the next size smaller 7UK, 26MP size but I’ve been able to make mine work with different liners and boot fitting.

[dschane]

My F1s are a bit lose, but soooo comfy. Have not got around to baking liners as yet.
Out of interest, Where did you get your F1s? And how much?

If this is directed to me, I haven't purchased them yet. There's some Italian store that has them, and there was a link somewhere in one of these pages on this site. I think they are 400 Euros. Tough to decide whether to jump now or wait until 2021, 2022, or 2023 when Scarpa, Scott, or Crispi offers up a new line-up of boots. Someone should try to convince other companies (La Sportiva?) to enter the mix. It's a gamble on us telemarkers, but with the explosion (perhaps saturation) of AT boots, a little risk may be in order.

[telemarkmark]

My F1s are a bit lose, but soooo comfy. Have not got around to baking liners as yet.
Out of interest, Where did you get your F1s? And how much?

[dschane]

Alright, thanks fellas for the information. It's virtually impossible to get this right without trying them on, so I appreciate the added data.

The F1 Carbon is now available only in 29 (from that Italian site) and that may be too big. I have medium feet, minimal arch and they measure about 28.25cm. Based on shell fitting, I should probably use a Tx Pro 27.5/28.0 and work the liner to mold/fidget my way to maximum comfort. I have been using 28.5/29.0 with a sole insert for many, many years and ignored fact that I can fit a 3/4" dowel between my heel and shell easily and with a tad of room to spare. I have some 28.0 Tx Pros on the way and will first figure that out. I will say the comfort of the 28.5s touring, esp. multi-day trips, will be hard to give up.

[jasonq]

here is what i can tell you. I ignore the BSL numbers as far as fit is concerned. I look at the UK shell mark. UK 7 shells fit me every time, with a "standard" thickness liner. I do use the BSL number, boot model, and that chart to figure out what UK size a given boot is.

looking only at the BSL can lead to problems. for example, a size UK6/MP25 TXP is 291, while a genI F1 UK7/MP26 is 292. One of those fits perfect, the other is way too small.

that said, between T2x, gen1 F1, F3, and TXP, while the UK7 shell is the right length, there are volume differences. The TXP is the highest volume, then the T2x, the, F1/F3. but the T2x and F1/F3 are pretty close and i can swap molded liners between them without any problems. the TXP is more different, and while i can use liners molded in the T2x/F1/F3 in the TXP by just bucking tight, going the other way doesn't work as well. I think scarpa says they use a 102mm last in all of them.

[iBjorn]

The table shown by Allan is correct regarding BSL and Mondo sizing as far as I know. I think that a lot of the issues in F1 sizing relates to how the F1 Race and Carbon are marked/selled in Mondo sizes, ie the Race/Carbon are often marked according to the shell size and not to the actual fit/liner size. As a result, when I received my first pair of F1 race, the box, boots and liner was marked "27" despite that the shells were marked BSL 301, in conflict with the table provided, and they were far to big to me . So I ordered F1 Race/Carbon in size 26 (BSL 292) and they were a good fit to me. However, using my T2/T4 265/270 liners in the BSL 301 shell provided a good fit, so I think that the volume of the F1 shell and T2/T4 shell is fairly similar.

So to conclude, if you want to use your TXP liner in a F1 shell, you should probably go according to the table at BSL 310. If you want to use the original F1 Race or Carbon liner (or any other thin liner) go for the 301 shell.

Edit: I can add that after molding of the liner in my pictured boot above - I got an almost perfect fit!

[Allan Fici]

Bumping this thread.

So, the F1 Race and F1 Carbon have smaller shells because the stock liners are thinner? If that's right and if you're planning on swapping out the old liners with a more robust liner say from your Scarpa Tx, would you buy a size bigger? That is, if my NTN boots are a 316 BSL and the choices are 310 or 318, would you go with the 318?

This is a good question dschane. I personally ended up with a regular 26.5/27MP F1 301mm bsl shell (actual 298mm bsl) that was very close in shell size to my 25.5/26MP TXP 299mm bsl shell. But because I bought them so long ago in 2011 and directly from Scarpa I don’t remember if I had bought the next size smaller, tried the fit and exchanged them. I know I did this with either the F1 or the TXP and I think it was the TXP that I bumped up in size. Anyway I feel that the F1 shell is higher in volume over the instep and maybe heel than the TXP comparing the same or similar shell size. I had to add an under liner shim and a tongue depressor pad to use the TXP liner right out of my TXP and make it work in my F1. Personally I think if I was doing this again today I’d down size the shell and work on making room in the liner or a punch in the shell if I needed to.

So so based on that kind of long winded reasoning. My suggestion would be the 310mm bsl shell vs the 318. It somewhat depends on your foot type, skinny low volume, or more blocky high volume, low arch, high arch?...shape. But I would like to hear jasonq, iBjorn and Charley White’s thoughts on this based on their experience.

[dschane]

Bumping this thread.

So, the F1 Race and F1 Carbon have smaller shells because the stock liners are thinner? If that's right and if you're planning on swapping out the old liners with a more robust liner say from your Scarpa Tx, would you buy a size bigger? That is, if my NTN boots are a 316 BSL and the choices are 310 or 318, would you go with the 318?

[iBjorn]

My second par of F1 Race arrived today, size 26 and one shell size smaller than my current ones. They seems to be a slightly older version with a little bit different upper buckle, and more importantly, a front gaiter without a zipper. They are a very tight fit without any socks with the original liner, and it is a nightmare to get the foot in and out of the boot - despite a shell fit with 2 fingers behind the heel. I really miss the zipper on the tongue gaiter. Oddly enough I can still move my heel up and down almost a centimeter...I guess I have to work with some shimming under the heel of the liner, as well as some to do some work with the insoles.

The boots score great on the kitchen scale...

[Charley White]

That is the same Palau liner that came in my F1’s. What size is the Palau liner that you have and do you want to get rid of them if they’re a 26 or 26.5?

They say "Mondo 270," so I make that 27.