Scarpa F1 sizing questions (old bellow version)

[iBjorn]

I got an hold of some old pairs of Scarpa F1 which I am interested in, however one of the pairs is sized 27.5 and the other has boot sole length of 310mm

I usually ski Scarpa T4, and 26.5 of these is a tight good fit and 27.0 is a loose, but still good fit. Would the 27.5 of the F1 be to big for me? Any opinion or advice?

The other pair with a boot sole length of 310mm, do they equal 28.0 or 27.5?

[Allan Fici]

My F1 shell has a BSL of 301 printed on the shell but they are actually 299. These are a 25.5/ 26 MP, size 7.5/ 8 US. I also am a 25.5 (26 MP shell) in the TXP with a 299 BSL and my old Garmont Excursion's. The F1 shells are 102mm last width so on the wider side and accurate for length. They are kind of voluminous, so I have a 5 iron footbed shim under my original TXP liners that are molded and in the F1's now. The stock Palau liners were a bit thin and did not fill up the volume of the F1 shell. Those Palau liners (F1 stock liner, which is a nice liner but low volume) are now molded and in my new Arcteryx Procline's which they fit very nicely in.

So bottom line on the F1 shell is they are roomy and you do not want to go bigger than your T4's. If you get some in the right size for you then you'll most likely want to get some new Intuition HV or MV liners for them.

[jasonq]

F1's came in three flavors, F1 race, 07 and later F1, and pre 07 F1.

F1 race is the07 and later F1, but with a thinner sheel, no tongue and 1 shell size smaller.

from scarpa's documentation:

[iBjorn]

Thanks for the answers, seems that both boots are out of the question. I got an unused pair of TLT4 liners that I recall to be pretty burly and thick - these might work with the 27.5 shell? But I probably wait and try to find the right shell size.

[iBjorn]

A follow-up report on this, I was able to find a pair of new F1 Race in size 27, BSL 301 - so they seems to have same shell as the regular F1s. The original liners are very roomy - and I could lift my heel approximately 1,5 cm in the boot, with the boot looked. Baking the liners and putting in spacing material only helped slightly. Putting in TLT4 liners filled up the shells almost to much and was painful for the fore foot, but still hadnt any decent heel grip.

Checking the shell fit, I easily got 3 fingers behind the heel with the liner removed. Approximately the same space that I have on my T4s (Which fits well). This seems to be more than the general advice on shell fitting og 1-2 fingers behind the heel.

My best shot was with Scarpa T4 intuition liners, they gave a good fit overall - and I almost had a grip of the heel. However, using the T4 liners do give some issues with the height of the shaft...

So to conclude it seem Scarpa liners, especially the tele ones, have a lot of material behind and around the heel. I guess I will have to find a 260 shell of the F1s.

[Allan Fici]

These older F1 shells are definitely on the high volume side with a 101mm wide Last. I have 2+ fingers on the shell fit, my foot is fairly normal no big peculiarities, high arch low/ mid volume forefoot and instep, narrow heel. The trouble with these boots is of your foot is lower in volume then you have to fill the space with liner, 5 iron type of shim and footbed to support your foot, calcaneous and also reduce volume. Here’s how I got mine to fit well for my foot. 5mm Eva and random woven fabric shim under liner, TX Pro liner molded with a Sole OTS high arch footbed.

[iBjorn]

Great idea of shimming under the liner! Haven´t thought of that. I tried to shim behind the heel, but didn´t help enough with the lack of heel grip. I can ski AT with these boots, but tele is a little bit akward with the heel moving around, they also give me blisters when teleing at the moment.

Do you experience that Scarpa tele boot liners fill up behind the heel better, have you tested other liners in the F1 shell?

[Allan Fici]

Great idea of shimming under the liner! Haven´t thought of that. I tried to shim behind the heel, but didn´t help enough with the lack of heel grip. I can ski AT with these boots, but tele is a little bit akward with the heel moving around, they also give me blisters when teleing at the moment.

Do you experience that Scarpa tele boots fill up behind the heel better, have you tested other liners in the F1 shell?

I could not use the stock Palau liners that came in the boots. they were similar to the current Palau Tour Lites which are 7 or 8mm thick, so low volume liners. I saved the Palau liners and they are now in my Procline Carbon boots and the fit is perfect in those boots (98mm wide, low volume, < 2 finger shell fit)) The F1's were really a poor combo of shells and liners for most folks with average volume feet. I initially installed an older wrap, single density, 10mm Intuition liner I had, they worked well but I wore them out. I then swapped in the TX Pro liners and bought some Precision High wrap liners for my TX Pros.

Scarpa boots tele or AT have fit similarities but these F1's seemed a bit more voluminous for whatever reason. I'd look at the Intuition, Scarpa or the Palau sites to see what's available for you there in Sweden. You might want to contact a good boot fitter and pay them to help you with the fit. Good luck with this and let me know if I can help.

[jasonq]

A follow-up report on this, I was able to find a pair of new F1 Race in size 27, BSL 301 - so they seems to have same shell as the regular F1s. The original liners are very roomy - and I could lift my heel approximately 1,5 cm in the boot, with the boot looked. .

keep in mind the F1 Race used one shell size smaller than the mondo size of the regular F1, and a thin liner. BSL 301 is indeed a mondo 27/UK 8 shell in the "new F1 F07", so with a F1 race liner, scarpa intended that to be a mondo 28. I would have expected the stock liners to not fit you, and not even be close.

with the "old F1, pre F07", i have not had any fit issues using the exact same liners i use in T2, T2X or TXP or F3 of the same shell size. That said, my right foot is 1/2 mondo smaller than my left, so i use a thin under liner shim in all my right boots. my foot is narrow, high arch, narrow heel.

[iBjorn]

Allan: Do you have the same size on the shell as I am, and have been able to use them with mondo 25.5 liners from TXP?

jasonq: thank you for the clarification on the shell sizes, that explains a lot! Both the decent fit of with the 27.0 T4 liner, as well as the huge inner volume of the original liner - it does feel like a 28! The odd and confusing thing is that the liner is marked "Scarpa 27"! I have read that the Race version used a smaller shell, but since the liner was marked 27 I thought that had scarpa had started to use the same shell on my Race boots. Also great tip on using a shim under the smaller foot, I also suffer from having my right foot at least a half mondo smaller. When I buy rock climbing shoes I usually have to buy two pairs/sizes and throw away one of each size...

I got hold of a boxed new pair of F1 Race in size 26 in Italy which I will order, but I will double-check the shell size so I don't end up with mondo 25 shells... I think it will be more easy to get a perfect fit with a smaller shell, although I probably will have to find new liners anyway. I was also able to find a new boxed pair of F1 Carbons in size 26 for 600€ (840 grams and stiffer shaft than the regular F1 Race) - which I am also considering to order, but I must try the regular Race in size 26 first.

[Allan Fici]

Allan: Do you have the same size on the shell as I am, and have been able to use them with mondo 25.5 liners from TXP?

jasonq: thank you for the clarification on the shell sizes, that explains a lot! Both the decent fit of with the 27.0 T4 liner, as well as the huge inner volume of the original liner - it does feel like a 28! The odd and confusing thing is that the liner is marked "Scarpa 27"! I have read that the Race version used a smaller shell, but since the liner was marked 27 I thought that had scarpa had started to use the same shell on my Race boots. Also great tip on using a shim under the smaller foot, I also suffer from having my right foot at least a half mondo smaller. When I buy rock climbing shoes I usually have to buy two pairs/sizes and throw away one of each size...

I got hold of a boxed new pair of F1 Race in size 26 in Italy which I will order, but I will double-check the shell size so I don't end up with mondo 25 shells... I think it will be more easy to get a perfect fit with a smaller shell, although I probably will have to find new liners anyway. I was also able to find a new boxed pair of F1 Carbons in size 26 for 600€ (840 grams and stiffer shaft than the regular F1 Race) - which I am also considering to order, but I must try the regular Race in size 26 first.

My 26 MP 2011/12 F1 is marked 7.5-8, 301mm (BSL) but it's really a 297mm BSL. But because of what Jason has stated regarding the Race version using one size smaller shell, you should then just refer to the marked BSL on the boot shell at the medial side heel. I can't quite read yours in the photo but it looks like 7.5-8 ???mm. This is why liner manufacturers make high and low or even medium volume liners. I could have definitely skied this F1 in the 25 MP shell with 291mm BSL and gotten by with a thinner liner and some fit mods. Because I tour in mine and often in cold temps I'm glad I have a bigger shell and a thicker liner in them. If I was racing them I'd probably have gotten the Race in the smaller shell.

Your race compared to my reg F1 is minus the tongue, probably same size shell as my 26 and probably a thinner liner to make is fit a 27. It looks like the Palau liner, is it?

If you do end up buying the 26 F1 Race, then i'd do a shell fit. If you can get 1.5-2 fingers behind your heel you'll be able to get a good fit but it may take some tricks to get them dialed in. I think they were all 101mm wide lasts so they won't be too narrow and need punching out at the ball of foot.

[iBjorn]

Allan: we have the same shell (except the tounge) and it is a Palau liner.

I don’t get the sizing, according to the Scarpa table the shell BSL 301 should be used for mondo 27 in regular F1’s and mondo 28 in F1 race version. My liners are marked as 27, but appear to be a 28. Are there differences in US and Europe mondo sizes?

[Allan Fici]

Nope, my 26 F1 is marked BSL 301. Looking back at the chart Jason posted doesn’t correlate to the sizing that Scarpa used and shipped on the F1 and race versions. I think the posted chart is off by one BSL size too small.

[Allan Fici]

iBjorn and jasonq: OK here's the weird thing about my F1's shells and Palau liners that came with them. The size molded into the shell says 7.5-8, 301mm. But they are not 301mm BSL, I measure them at 297mm. I have 25.5-26 TX Pros and they are 299mm (and measures 299) and when I switch the boots in the TTS binding I have to tighten the spring barrels to adjust them to the F1 vs the TXP. The TXP and F1s I have have the same set back of the tech cups from the toe of the boot. I also just pulled out the Palau liners form my Procline Carbon boots and the printed size on my original F1 liners that now live in my Proclines are marked Code 10515, Mondo 26.5. I also just uploaded a chart here from theskimonster blog that confirms the sizing in jasonq's chart. It kind of looks to me like I have an older pre 2007 25.5/26 shell with a 26.5 liner. So my previous note stating to use the marked BSL on the shell is not accurate according to the tape measure and these charts.

[iBjorn]

Allan: I do think that we have the same shell, it looks the same - and pre-2007 shells looks different with a different color.
I measured my sole and the length of the rubber is about 296mm, but the length of the total boot seems to be about 301mm. Could the height of the sole and placement of the heel throw cause a difference in length for the TTS springs?

If we have the same shell it should wouldn´t be to difficult for me to get a 26.5 liner to fit (if you were able to get a 25.5/26 to fit in the shell.)

I will probably order the 26 Race F1s with the smaller shell anyway, I really like the F1 and the ability to use it as a combo TTS/AT set-up. Since there won’t be any new Tele boots from Scarpa in the near future, it may be a good idea to pile up.

Also, I do have a severe preference to soft boots and going in AT mode with the race F1’s almost feels like telemarking with Hammerhead #4...