Scarpa Defender

[zonca]

These are on sale at the Scarpa site and the TTS site has them too at a very fair $350. They are supposed to be like the F3. Any comments?

http://www.wasatchski.com/accessories.htm

[CSG]

I got nothing. I came here to post the same question.

[Dostie]

They are a grey F3, which is a T2X with an Alpine toe and heel outfitted with Dynafiddle inserts, but no NTN duckbutt. They start out with a stiffer bellows flex than a T2 since the original intent of the boot wasn't to flex completely for a tele, but to allow a more natural stride when skinning for AT skiers.

[zonca]

Thanks Dostie. Possibly the stiffer bellows will work well with TTS. I would worry about cracking and toe pinch though if the bellows was not intended to flex as completely as needed for low tele.

[Dostie]

According to Mark Lengel, the man behind TTS, the F3 is the ultimate TTS boot. It does take a few days to break in so that the bellows flex is a bit softer, but it does, and the results are - in his opinion - the best option available. Period.

[zonca]

Just what I hoped to hear. Ordering a pair right away.

[Big Steve]

Yup, that's an F3 in khakis. It would be a good TTS boot if it fits. I put lots of days on F3s & Dynafits bindings, will be my boot if I go TTS notwithstanding a small crack in one bellows.

[zonca]

quote Mark Lengel

The F3 is basically the 2 buckle T2 turned into an AT boot. It has a 1/2"
(1.25cm) lower cuff than the TX/TX pro boots, a more upright stance and a
longer range of cuff motion, all of which make it a great touring boot. It
also engages a tech toe easier as it does not have an NTN shaped sole (the
TX boots have a notched out section in the sole for the tech fittings as the
NTN sole is inherently too large for the tech toe standard width). I almost
exclusively tour in the F3 and use my TX boots primarily for resort use.
The higher cuff of the TX provides a bit more support when driving deep knee
tele turns however the F3 offers plenty of lateral support to engage ski
edges and provide confidence when skiing steep, icy slopes and the F3 is
noticeably more comfortable to walk in. The defenders are actually nicer
than the stock F3 as they have a heavy duty, lace up liner with soles (nice
for hut trips, you can remove the laces if you don't plan on using them) and
a clasp on the upper buckle so you can leave it loose on the uphill and not
have it flopping around.

unquote

[Nurse Ben]

What they said ^

BUT, these boots are single injection Pebax, so more like a T2 with thinner Pebax, so not really a T2 or a TX.

I found the F3 bellows to be "poppy", granted I only tried them in a shop, but the Pebax is thinner so they could wear quicker. I wore through my TX bellows in one season from "overcompression", which led to a fold, which led to a hole. The original TX has been the best TTS boot for me, but mine wore out.

If I were going to get a new boot, $350 is a deal, but for $525 you can get Evo Randos or for $450 you can get Shiver Randos, both will last longer, have comparable weights to TX and similar fits, and they will have more functionality for NTN; also better resale.

Is the lace up liner thermofit?

[Big Steve]

FTR, the bellows material on my (orange) F3s is translucent, looks different than the rest of the boot shell. I have a crack in one of my F3 bellows, patched it from the inside with rubber tape, not waterproof any longer. I just ordered TTS, so we shall see how long it holds out.

Also, having many days on 2 generations of T2s and on F3s, I can tell you that they are not the same shell material. My F3s are a bit softer than my most recent gen T2s.

[Nurse Ben]

Steve, did you wear a crack in your F3 bellows from normal walking/hiking and AT use?

I don't have that many miles on my F1, hopefully the bellows will not break down quickly.

I think TTS is hard on bellows, the lack of ROM shifts the "pressure" to other components, so bellows, cartridges, wires, hold down.

My original TX worked wonderfully, sadly I retired them, kinda wish I could find another set of those lowers...

The Crispis have fairly tough bellows, thicker than Scarpa, so I'm hopeful they will last.

[Big Steve]

Steve, did you wear a crack in your F3 bellows from normal walking/hiking and AT use?

I'm sure it got abraded. I put up lots of spring/summer tours/scrambles on my F3s, so lots of rock scrapes and probably a few ski edge digs too. Then I got TLT5Ms when they first came out and haven't had the F3s on my feet since then. Now my TLT5s are trashed. Oh well, such is the price for May-July tours.

[jasonq]

I asked scarpa some questions on the defender a while back, just got this reply:
"The Defender and the F3 have the same dual injection, so the bellow and flex would be nearly identical. The liner in the Defender is an instant fit liner, not an Intuition like it says on our website. "

so its a gray F3 shell with a non-thermo liner it appears.

[zonca]

so its a gray F3 shell with a non-thermo liner it appears.

A suitable case for an Intuition upgrade!

[zonca]

Defenders arrived yesterday. The liner is a well stitched hut boot with laces and a sole but TXPro Intuition liners fit perfectly. Tongue hight is identical but TX shell slightly higher at the back. As expected the bellows is very stiff out of the box. Spent about 1 1/2 hours skinning around my x-c trails and the bellows is already breaking in a bit. The fit is way better in the tech toe binding than the TX and the G3 heel throw fits around the heel a lot better too. Really light, comfortable boot for skinning and walking around. I feel I could sleep in them. First boot since my black T1s that isn't a horrible colour. to be continued...