Lynx V2 experience (and V1, why not?)

[jnicol]

Thought I'd start a new Lynx thread with a more positive title.

Got out for a tour on the V2 Lynx today. Just one lap, breaking trail in 20cm +/-. Light snow, but temps were rising and in the end it was probably only a few degrees below freezing.

First, getting them on: locking the duckbutt grabber down into tour mode is much more 'positive' (solid click) than the V1. Stepping into the toes, again more 'positive' than the V1.

I tried going no climbing wires to begin to see if the ski mode clamp (claw) would grab the duckbutt but nothing. I could feel snow under the boot, which I think contributes to the problem, but it didn't happen. Then I raised the wires and did most of the rest of the climb with the small wires up. Before transitioning, I put the wires down again and about the first stride the claw grabbed my boot and I was in ski mode. I took my boot out, knocked out the snow and stepped back in and it didn't happen again - but I only went another 100m.

When I clicked into ski mode it was very easy and positive and engaged first try. Often my V1s require some cleaning and pulling up on the claw when transitioning to ski mode in deep snow.

So, overall I was happy with the improvements, but also a little surprised that I got that claw grab on the V2s so quickly. As I've noted before, it's pretty easy to avoid if you just use your small wires, but it would be nice if it didn't happen at all.

[mo pow]

I haven't had the claw on my V2's grab in touring mode yet, but haven't been out in warm snow. Touring on flats with the climbing bar up isn't really a good solution on a long tour. And this: I have to admit that a couple of times during transitions I have forgotten to put a climbing bar down and then have been momentarily confused about why the raised claw wouldn't grab to go into ski mode. Duh.

[jnicol]

And this: I have to admit that a couple of times during transitions I have forgotten to put a climbing bar down and then have been momentarily confused about why the raised claw wouldn't grab to go into ski mode. Duh.

I'm guilty of that too - my excuse is the snow was light and deep and I couldn't see the riser.

[Pherick]

22Designs response to my question about surprise transitions to ski mode:

"
As far as keeping the claw from engaging while touring flat, we recommend installing one or 2 of the included "power spacers" to the end of the cable/spring. This takes up any remaining slack out of the system, and should put more tension on the claw and keep it engaged in its spot when touring.
"

I also had to get new main plates after busting off the cam stop tabs just a few days in. Hopefully the power spacers work here, too.

FWIW 22Designs was quick to replace everything, no cost.

Love how the the Lynx skis and tours. Improvement over the already-good OutlawX (which I still ride). Hope these issues go away.

If only the gods would deliver a boot that can keep up.

[mo pow]

22Designs response to my question about surprise transitions to ski mode:

"
As far as keeping the claw from engaging while touring flat, we recommend installing one or 2 of the included "power spacers" to the end of the cable/spring. This takes up any remaining slack out of the system, and should put more tension on the claw and keep it engaged in its spot when touring.
"

So.....this is interesting. I hadn't thought about it but when I first mounted my V1 I didn't install either spacer, then late in the spring I installed one. Now looking back "I think" the number of unwanted claw engagements dropped after I installed the spacer. If I can find them I will install the 2nd on each binding. Each spacer seems to make only a tiny bit of difference when actually skiing -- although on the carpet if you test side-by-side you can feel it.

[jasonq]

I don't have lynx...

i wonder how much tension/spring rate is needed to keep the claw in tour mode? i ask because i'm wondering if a non-solid spacer might keep the claw behaving, while not changing the feel. I'm thinking wave washers instead of spacers. or wave washers + spacers even. Although, aren't there only spacers on one spring? i think the wave washers/spring spacer would need to be symmetrical on the two springs.

also wondering if shimming the claw stop on the fiberglass (that is cracking) would achieve the same thing for the claw in tour mode. Not sure if that would cause a problem in non-tour mode.

[Pherick]

also wondering if shimming the claw stop on the fiberglass (that is cracking) would achieve the same thing for the claw in tour mode. Not sure if that would cause a problem in non-tour mode.

It is my suspicion that some kind of "shimming," as you suggest, to keep the Cam Stop where it is supposed to be on the Main Plate will keep the little tabs from breaking off of the main plate. The cam stop actually protects these tabs when it is in the right configuration. My pending solution as of now is to use something like packing tape to build up a shim on the main plate just enough to get the cam stop stuck in the right spot on the main plate. The shim will need to be attached to either the main plate or the cam stop since the flex of skiing it will just work anything else out of there.

To recap, I think there are two closely related things going on here:
1- The claw and its cams need to press against the cam stop with enough force to
a- keep the cams locked in the tour or ski mode detents on the cam stop or else the claw can flop around, and
b- keep the cam stop pressed against the main plate tabs in order to hide the tabs within the cam stop and protect them from snow accumulation snapping them off.
2- The cam stop needs to be... stopped... by those tabs in order for the claw's cams to have something to engage against. If the tabs break and the cam stop can move forward along the main plate toward the toepiece, no resistance from the cam stop, no engagement of the cams and issues keeping the binding in either mode. In my case, all I had was tour mode once the main plate was thoroughly shot (on the first descent of a dumping powday no less, womp womp)


I think think a failure of (1) allows the tab breakage that causes (2).

[jnicol]

After a full day of lift served skiing on Lynx V2 I feel as though the tension has eased somewhat. I'd guess the flex plates have broken in a little bit - but no observed cracks in the plates. This is a good thing as I think they are too stiff to begin with.

[Allan Fici]

I just posted this in the cracked thread a few minutes ago.

• I skied BC today in 8-10" of new in the last few days but at 32-34f so heavy and pack able, compressible snow. Lynx did pretty well with it. Only one unintentional claw deploy but probably because snow was packed in there. I think I'm going to paste wax all the flex plates and moving parts to help shed snow. I might AI tape just the top plate but I'm not sure it's needed yet.
  
  I'm already thinking about making after market flex plates with some different materials that I've worked with. It could allow some custom tuning of these bindings if there were multiple plates of different flexing materials.

Jason, Good idea on the non solid spacers possible some softer plastic spacers that are not temp affected could work also.

Looking at the notch that the claw cam seats in tells me that maybe it could be slightly more aggressive in how it seats. i'm not going to filing anything just yet. Needs more time and touring. The conditions I had today were warmish 32-34 snow that was packing into anything it could and I only had the one pre-deploy of the claw.

[Grant]

Rene Martin's take

I wonder if the cracking he hears is the plate in fact...cracking?

Are other folks still having issues with the toe piece not clicking in securely?

[CrazyMtnSkier]

Was out in the BC again, had the "claw deploy" once while in tour mode. I think it would have happened more often but I had the climbing heel up most of the day. Plenty of snow sticking to the binding on a mild temperature day.

My thoughts.

This is primarily a backcountry binding, light weight, if I skied mostly lift areas I think I would be better off with the Outlaw X or Vice.
That said I don't need step in convenience for the ski mode, I always take my skis off to pull my skins, gear up, drink a cup of tea, enjoy the view, and get ready for the hard earned turns.

I would like the duck butt claw to lock out while in tour mode. Then when I pull skins I could unlock it. I feel the flex plates are too stiff and now I need to add the second spacer to try and prevent the claw from catching while touring which will make the binding even more active. Not the feeling I really want.

I think 22 Designs should have concentrated on making this the best backcountry binding even if it makes it less user friendly for lift areas.

I have had no trouble with the toe piece, and the flex plates haven't cracked, though I have not had a fall yet while skiing and I think that will impart a lot of stress to the flex plate.

[Pherick]

Seriously. I never understood "step in" as a selling point. You do it a handful of times even touring. But you take a step every single step. It's clear what to prioritize.

[dschane]

I've had a few more outings on them . . . cracked plate doesn't matter; toes work great; weight, hike up, and ski down are farkin sweet; when I was breaking trail in heavy, deep sticky snow, the snow pushed the duckbutt lever up. I pushed it back down and mostly used the risers from there, so I never locked down, but I can obviously see how that can happen as snow packs in. If the fix is to come up with a lock while touring, I certainly wouldn't care.

[Allan Fici]

I ski the Outlaw X with stiffy springs and brakes for in area skiing, replacing the Rotte FR (11 years) for the same. I bought the Lynx to use as primarily a BC binding and to work in compliment to the Outlaw for trips that combine area skiing and BC or any combinations of. I drill my skis and use BF inserts to ease the swap of bindings. Step in is the standard for AT and this is I'm sure how 22D is seeing the Lynx in use and compared to tech AT bindings. I for one only take my skis off to strip skins when it's precarious to strip them with skis on. Why spend extra energy to do the same job plus I get more freshies and choices if I'm ready to ski quickly.

My take after a few days of BC on the Lynx is the spacers help set some pre-load and to give snap to the claw either notching into tour mode or up for ski mode. The spacer will affect the springs tension making it more progressive but not necessarily more active off the deck. And as the springs take a little set from use it may require adding another spacer. The flex plates and tele vector/ slic pin setting are whats going to affect the initial activity on the Lynx not necessarily the spring spacers.

I've been skiing AT low tech BC bindings for 15 years, TTS bindings for 10+ years, Meidjo for 4+ years. So this my base for perspective and comparing the Lynx to the bindings I've logged time on. Is the Lynx perfected yet, probably not but it's pretty damn good over all. I love it's simplicity and initial durability as compared to the Meidjo. I don't think the Lynx is any more prone to pre-deploying the claw in tour more than any Dynafit binding was for the same issue before they engineered the anti rotation device for their heels. It's not as simple or as easy in transitions as my current TTS binding but it's NTN/ TTN. I would love to see them design in the ability to change out coil springs to tune progression as well as offer options for flex plates to tune activity and maybe make the notch for the claw tour mode a little more aggressive. My guess is that 22D is going to make some alternative flex plate cartridges to help fine tune the Lynx kind of like stiffy springs on the other 22D bindings. That is what I would do if I was 22D.

[jnicol]

I used to think the cracked plate didn't matter either, but I pulled mine off to install a spacer (didn't want more activity, but did want better claw grabbing) and noticed there is significant deterioration running directly across the underside of the upper plate at the pivot. We'll see how it goes.

I've said this already, but agree with more options for flex, particularly softer.

All that said, these are still the best by a long shot. Just spent two days touring and mine were flawless. No snow packing, no claw grabbing. The one thing that has bugged me in the past is trying to step in on transition can be hard to get the duckbutt to grab. It seems better since I added the spacer. But one side, once today gave me a little grief. Things were really cold and windy on a col and it just sorta fit the environment. I just held up the claw with my pole as I stepped in and that was it.

I really like how easy these are to change modes. Want to go from skiing to free across the flats, push the pole tip against the claw to disengage. Want to re-engage, pull the claw up with pole handle. The climbing heels, both small and tall, work so great!

A guy with me was on Dynafits and had numerous instances of the heel spinning and causing him to step in and also had a toe release on a sketchy, wind blasted section requiring strong edging. It was definitely the Dynafit that led by far in the aggravating problems department.