Omg tts

[xmatt]

I know that there is a lot of info on TTS out there, so maybe this is already answered, but I am wondering about the OMG TTS bindings. A few questions.
1) I've read the the OMG toes are not as good as others and it is better to replace their toes with something else, using the same heel kit. Does this still hold true, or have they improved the toes?
2)They claim 905 grams the pair. Is this really true, and how much is the weight of the binding other than toe pieces? (so, if I replace the toes with something else, how much will it weigh?)
3)If other toes are used, will shimming be needed, and what is a recommended shim material?
4)What's the negative with these bindings compared to other TTS setups such as Kreuz or DIY? Why DIY other than a desire to tinker and save a little money? Are they as good durability-wise as other TTS?
5)How's the cable travel on the different cable options? I generally prefer lower spring tension and "activity".

Thanks!

[bobbytooslow]

I'm on hold with Verizon (insert poop emoji), so plenty of time to answer your questions!

1). I agree, other toes are better. I have 2 pairs of OMG toes, one I bought and one a friend gave me because he didn't like them. They are a little harder to get into than other toes I have, and the lever is hard to get out of lock mode. Some folks have had pre-release issues, though I have not, most likely because I always skied them full-lock. Whereas the base plate on most new tech toes is cast and/or machined aluminum or steel, the OMG one is stamped. I currently have them on my rollerskis.

2). 450g per ski is about right. I just weighed the OMG toepiece at 110g, which is pretty good, actually. See the Dynafit toes below, from skimo dot co. The Superlite/LowTech/PDG toes are awesome and my favorite, but pricey. The Speed Turn 2.0's are cheap, easy in/out, and they ski real nice. Is 60g per toe worth an extra $45 x 2 to you? I find the "power towers" on the Radicals make them harder to get into, and don't notice any improved rigidity/performance (though in theory, one should).



3). Shimming. The rule of thumb is that for every mm the cable pivot is lowered relative to the pins, it has the same effect as moving the cable pivot back 2mm toward the tail. So, there are multiple ways to dial in your desired feel. Most folks, if shimming, cut them out of UHMW or Delrin plastics, though if you're into 3D printing, real styley ones can be made pretty easily and cheaply.

4). Most of the other TTS systems have cables that are removable in one way or another. If you're trying to go lightweight, might as well go all the way (of course, this is kinda pointless if your boots each weight 3,472g). The OMG ones seem pretty durable to me, toepieces not withstanding. Using threaded inserts to mount everything seems like a wise idea, though some people swear traditional screws are stronger.

5). Limited travel is definitely an issue. Dostie listed the travel of all the different companies' springs somewhere that I'm too lazy to go find. The crux is that, when set up with the cable pivot a standard-ish distance back from the pins, the stiff springs run out of travel, while the springs with ample travel are too soft. Given your preferences, though, maybe some of the "Long/Soft/Tour" springs would work fine for you.

HOWEVER, the boot plays a large role in this as well. In my boots with softer/rounder flexing soles, the lack of travel isn't an issue; I'm still able to get my knee plenty low. Stiffer boots make the bottoming-out of the springs more noticeable and problematic. Current tele boots were designed to flex with the toe lug somewhat clamped down; #1 on the specification wish list for new boots (maybe 1A & 1B with lighter weight) should be a sole that flexes easily and roundly when clamped into a binding with a "frictionless" tech toe. In other words, a lot of the issues/criticisms of TTS could be mitigated by boots that were actually designed to perform well in that type of binding. Start holding your breath...

[dschane]

I know that there is a lot of info on TTS out there, so maybe this is already answered, but I am wondering about the OMG TTS bindings. A few questions.
1) I've read the the OMG toes are not as good as others and it is better to replace their toes with something else, using the same heel kit. Does this still hold true, or have they improved the toes?
2)They claim 905 grams the pair. Is this really true, and how much is the weight of the binding other than toe pieces? (so, if I replace the toes with something else, how much will it weigh?)
3)If other toes are used, will shimming be needed, and what is a recommended shim material?
4)What's the negative with these bindings compared to other TTS setups such as Kreuz or DIY? Why DIY other than a desire to tinker and save a little money? Are they as good durability-wise as other TTS?
5)How's the cable travel on the different cable options? I generally prefer lower spring tension and "activity".

Thanks!

bts pretty much covered it all.

I'd add that I would shim at least so there isn't a significant gap under the ball of your foot. It may not be necessary if the toes aren't shimmed -- and I'd shim the toes only to change the ramp angle. In other words, you should probably first try it with nothing and see how that feels.

I currently have the Kreuz set up. It's pretty slick and I like the ramp angle, so that reduces the amount of tinkering for me. I also like hiking with the cartridges in my pack as it's a tad lighter and they're totally out of the way. On the other side, the OMG TTS gives you more options to change pivot location (you have 3 options with both, but you can locate the OMG plate where ever you want on the ski).

If you use the long springs that Voile made or the soft ones that Kreuz makes -- you'll be able to obtain a very neutral feel and won't bottom out.

My main issue with the TTS systems I've used is that I bottom out and prefer more tension than is possible with the soft springs. I have not bottomed out with Lynx or Meidjo (and hope Lynx comes out with a stiffer spring option next year).

And, I'll say it stronger than bts - don't bother with the OMG toes. You can buy Dynafit toes only from skimo and they're totally worth it.

[bobbytooslow]

My main issue with the TTS systems I've used is that I bottom out...

I'm curious, have you tried your F1 Race boots in that same TTS yet? I wonder if others will find that the increased sole flex makes the bindings feel like they don't bottom out as soon.

And, I'll say it stronger than bts - don't bother with the OMG toes. You can buy Dynafit toes only from skimo and they're totally worth it.

Yeah. I hate to say bad things about Mark and OMG. I give him a TON of credit for sticking his neck out to make a product for a sport/industry that, at the time, seemed like it was circling the drain. And his heel levers are great, the best you can buy, IMO. I wholeheartedly endorse buying the whole back end from OMG.

[jnicol]

First, bobbytooslow gets the prize for that response! When someone asks a question with numbers and an answer is provided with numbers - that is the gold standard!! Not to mention the thorough coverage of the topic.

Second, that must have been a long time on hold with Verizon!

Third, most things are covered here above.

Fourth, if you want to go in-depth, there was a very long thread each year going back to about 2013 - or maybe some that overlapped years. Some can be found in the Bindings section, others in the BSB&G. The older ones dealt more with the OMG system and the newer ones more with DIY systems. Look for subjects like: TTS strengths, Weaknesses and workarounds; Tele Tech Systems for 2016/17; DIY tele tech 2017/18; And there is one for 2018/19 as well but I don't think it went as deep.

I tried a lot of these systems and ended up with the Kreuzspitze springs. Benefit is you can change the spring inside the cartridge thereby changing the stiffness. They also have the most range (except maybe the OMG soft, but I found them way too soft, and I like a softer feel). I was breaking the rods on the OMG until I ran out of them. I ended up going with a bolt through and using Voile Hardwires. But.... the Lynx is here now with a similar weight and great performance (actually, lighter than my DIY tele techs once I got them performing the way I wanted). Unless you want to build something unique to your specs, or want to be able to carry the springs up separately, just get the Lynx.

[xmatt]

Thanks much for all the answers! Very very useful. Thanks for comments on the toes, yes it looks like other toes can be bought cheaply and paired with the rest from OMG.

Regarding the recommendation just to go with Lynx, I mostly ski on Meidjo, and I am very happy with that binding, and I bet I'd like Lynx too. My temptation for getting TTS is to pair it with F1 boots, now that someone has posted some links to where those boots might be found. Sure, I could then cut the boots up and add a bolt-on duckbutt, but that's getting more work than I want. Plus, I am intrigued by the idea of easy transitions on the TTS.

[dschane]

I'm curious, have you tried your F1 Race boots in that same TTS yet? I wonder if others will find that the increased sole flex makes the bindings feel like they don't bottom out as soon.

No, I haven't. Does the OMG lever work with the extraordinarily bulky walk/tour mechanism? Last time I tried F1s with a tech tele setup, I just removed that entire walk/tour thing, but that brings its own issues. A tech heel compatible lever like the one jasonq fashioned would be perfect.

Totally agree re OMG -- a turning point in binding systems that spawned a fleet of lightweight options.

[bobbytooslow]

Does the OMG lever work with the extraordinarily bulky walk/tour mechanism?

It does! It looks like it's kicked back an a bit of a funky angle, but it actually snaps on there pretty well. I've never had one pop off accidentally. The Voile Switchback levers, with a bit of a hollowed-out underside, also work really well with the F1's walk lever. The hardest part is remembering, at the top of a climb, to switch into ski mode before flipping the heel lever onto the boot.

[Allan Fici]

I agree with BTS regarding the OMG levers. I think they're the best overall. I like that there is enough material in the levers so that you can shape and sculpt them a bit to best fit the boot. My pics here show my F1 with the Kreuzspitze tour lever but the stock lever was not any higher profile with regards to how the heel lever fit them. The OMG levers fit very well and the geometry of them has a good snap and retention on the boot. Mark Lengel is definitely an unsung hero on this TTS front and we all owe him for guiding us down this path to tele-touring enlightenment.

I've been skiing this version of my DIY TTS for almost 3 years now and I made improvements to it this year by adding another 1/8" shim under the mid block. I also have a 0 ramp delta with the Kreuzspitze tele heel at 17mm high. 1/4" Delrin block under the Kreuz snow crab toe and my flip flop 48mm/ 58mm Delrin mid block that is 5/8" high. For me and my 26.5 MP/ 297mm BSL F1, I am getting the best flex and activity of the binding with the cable pivot at 48mm behind the tech pins (x-axis) and a 25mm vertical (y-axis) delta between the tech pins and the cable pivot. My tech toe pins are 36mm above the ski deck and the cable pivot is 9mm above the ski deck to equal the 25mm delta.

The x-axis of course will depend on your BSL so longer boots will probably feel better with a larger x-axis delta. This is all subjective to feel and desired activity. I can put knee to ski or more accurately shin parallel with the ski.

[Allan Fici]

I'm not sure why the photos in my post above won't enlarge when you click on them. So I uploaded the photos to this post.