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TTS, strengths, weaknesses, work arounds

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  • TTS, strengths, weaknesses, work arounds

    The TTS are good in so many ways, but:

    Annoying mode change, etc...
    It is a PITA to go from ski to tour mode. So what if the boot could pivot without undoing the heel using a tensioned partial hinge, essential making TTS a three mode binding. This would still allow for a free pivot if you wanted to unhook the heel lever, but it would add a meadow skipping mode for times when neither ski nor free pivot is a good fit. I realize this adds weight and complicates a simple system, but it also preserves the positives such as release, free pivot, potential for brakes, etc...

    Lacking ski mode ROM:
    The TTS suffers from lack of spring cartridge ROM, even in my "maximum" set up using Axl springs, TTS can bottom out. Yes, most bindings will bottom out, but if the the duck butt (gawd forbid) were used as the second point of attachment, the same length springs would provide more ROM ... admittedly I'm not an engineer, so I expect one or two to chime in ....

    Lack of widespread marketing:
    How can folks try this system if no one sells it or has demos??

    Boots, boots, we need boots:
    I was fortunate to score some F1 before Scarpa closed them out, which is sad as this is a great boot for lightweight meadow skipping, but sadly there is nothing lighterweight than a TX now. On the heavier end of the spectrum I finally had to put my original stiffy Terminators X to rest, so now I am skiing a newer TX and they are just not a good replacement, too soft. The fey Bros will supposedly have the Shiver and Evo Randos in all sizes this year... I have some Shivers on order, but we still need more boots. Is there any reason why Scarpa has not added tech fittings to the Comp?

    Improving Ankle Flextion:
    On my Terminator X stiffies I dremeled a notch connecting the walk lever lock out holes, essentially making the lock lever into a slider. I originally did this so I could use the boots for alpine boarding, but when I tried it with TTS it was a nice freeriding boot that lessened the tendency toward bottoming out the springs. I thought about taking this to the next step and having a slider combined with a lock out.
    Last edited by Nurse Ben; 30 August 2013, 08:36 AM.

  • #2
    "fey Bros?" Someplace to get Crispi boots?


    • #3
      Originally posted by stevesliva
      "fey Bros?" Someplace to get Crispi boots?
      Fey Brothers of fame, and now, as the official US distributors of Crispi boots. Story at

      ain't no turn like tele!


      • #4
        I'm still envisioning something like the demo plate for dynafit's heel with a quick release so the heel could be moved way back. That with some mounts for the heel throw like Voile's hardwire paired with F1's and you could kick and glide flats and lock down for steeps. I guess it's because that's the only thing I miss about tele. Kick and glide and low angle transitions are better IMO.


        • #5
          TTS holds the boot heel down so firmly that it is best to just unlatch the heel throw when striding over flats and rolling terrain. This is the case even when the heel assembly is mounted in the foremost, least active position.

          When the heel assembly is mounted fully aft to max out heel hold down, it skis like an alpine binding. The boot heel stays on the deck unless convincingly persuaded otherwise. Because of this I have been considering using TTS with a non-bellowed AT boot like a TLT5 or ONE for long days in challenging terrain. I have a pair of F1s (bellowed) but these days there are numerous boot offerings that are as light as F1s but have markedly better downhill chops. Unfortunately none of them that I know of have bellows ... at least not yet.


          • #6
            Yes, TTS holds things down well unless you have a system with more spring travel like the Axl.

            I get decent travel on my newer TX, but not as good as my old TX which had the walk mode modified to be a slider.

            With an unlocked cuff, the TTS is not bad for striding, but then it's not really meant for striding in ski mode. Would you expect decent striding from an Axl or BD01 in ski mode?


            • #7
              My idea is to use a soft spring for kick and glide and skating, only the toe for skin track and the heel for steeps. Probably not worth the weight penalty, but interesting to me nonetheless.
              Last edited by Matt J; 5 September 2013, 03:58 AM. Reason: mobile font size


              • #8


                • #9
                  With a little more enginurding I believe the TTS concept will allow exactly what you're after with a quick change cable adjustment system where you could change from high tension springs to softer ones in a matter of minutes, and a training heel that retracts like G3's Onyx or the new Diamir Z12 does. THAT and the weight and the power is why I believe the future of Tele gear will be in the Telemark Tech System format.

                  ain't no turn like tele!


                  • #10
                    haha Matt B

                    I was trying to fix the super small font size when posting from my phone but I guess I over did it. Over compensation I guess edit: It appears it's the viewing not the posting that makes it look small on my phone?

                    Let's hope so, Dostie. Seems to be simply an engineering question which usually gets solved although not by me. Then it will all come down to weight.

                    I've changed my zip code again this summer so I'll probably be changing a lot of gear too. Maybe TTS will be in the cards. I've already got a pair of F1's and a few pairs of tech toes so I guess it wouldn't be too much trouble. It'll have to beat out leathers and cables for meadow skipping though.
                    Last edited by Matt J; 5 September 2013, 03:59 AM.


                    • #11

                      Your "soft spring" to give the free pivot a little resistance for kick and glide is kinda what I was getting in the "three modes" concept. I'd like to have a binding that is not "all of nothing", not that there's anything wrong with a free pivot, but it's also not that great for kickin' it on the flats. I also don't want to continually be flipping off the lever and stowing it, this gets annoying and the lever doesn't always stay stowed.

                      If the crossover spring bar hold down was mounted on a sliding plate that could be engaged/disengaged with a ski pole (lever or push button), then the plate could have a secondary spring to maintain some tension for kick and glade, meanwhile the heel lever stays tensioned and in place, so then it's just a press of the pole tip and you're locked and skiing again.

                      In a different approach, the spring bar hold down could "unlock" and rotate upwards with the boot, so the cartridges would still be ued for tension, but it would be significantly reduced. This might be the simplest fix, a partial plate for just the hold down, mounted on a hinge behind the toe piece, simple rotating latch.


                      • #12
                        @Matt J - is what I assume you meant?

                        I see you're still obsessing about bindings, Ben. Perhaps you missed your calling in Enginurding (haha, I like that Craig).

                        It's difficult for me to visualize what you're describing. When ever I hear, "a little thing to do this" and "a little thing to do that" all I can think of is "it will be HEAVY."

                        Perhaps we don't like to switch out parts like cables, but sometimes it's necessary to put 8 oz's on your back rather than 10 or 12 on your feet. As long as it can be done with gloves on I don't mind. I always have a pack on and can make sure I keep up with it. I'm visualizing a tech toe with a hanger for cables like the Voile 3-Pin. Whether or not you could make it beefy enough for stiffer springs and dynamic turns would obviously depend on design and materials.

                        I haven't seen this new generation of retractable heels like Dostie's describing, but that sounds promising for a "training heel" that doesn't interfere with the heel throw.

                        The limitations of the free pivot are more a nitpicky thing to me, personally. But whatever new system is going to have to prove to be a lot more joyful than touring on tech bindings. Skiing on light gear is hard to beat for me.


                        • #13
                          "obsessing" might be a bit strong. I'm a tinker, I like to modify things, see if I can improve them, it adds another layer of fun to my activities. This morning I built an extended tray rack for my new tandem mtb, cobbled together two old racks, and saved the cost of a new rack and used up a bunch of junk.

                          I like thinking of ways to improve the TTS because I like the way it skis and tours. Anyone who has skied TTS knows it has some weak points, it is active and has limited ROM, the heel lever "stow and go" harkens back to the pre-NTN days, and the free pivot is a little too floppy for rolling terrain.

                          My idea is to allow some vertical "give" in the wire crossover mounting block so that the cartridges are not fully engaged, adding a "third mode". This mode would provide some "feedback" resistance for cruising rolling terrain (kick and glide), but still provide enough tension to keep the heel lever in place.

                          Think of a small hinge mounted on the ski, behind the toe piece, with the hinge pivot oriented forward, the mounting block is mounted to the hinge, the rear part of the hinge has a clasp mounted to the ski that can be used to lock the hinge down for ski mode, or unlocked for the third mode (flat tour, kick and glide). The free pivot would be retained, but only used for dedicated climbs where you want no resistance.

                          It would not add much weight, a small stainless hinge and misc hardware for locking down the hinge would be 50-100gm per ski, not much for what it offers.

                          I can already do this mod on my TTS axls by pulling the slik pin and running it at a "zero" setting. Pulling the pin is not that convenient, but it does work in the way I describe above.


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Matt J
                            I haven't seen this new generation of retractable heels like Dostie's describing, but that sounds promising for a "training heel" that doesn't interfere with the heel throw.
                            G3's Onyx has a heel that retracts, as does the new (yet to be delivered) Z12 from Fritschi Diamir.

                            ain't no turn like tele!


                            • #15
                              As a psych guy I should have guessed that you'd be sensitive to "obsessed" - general public uses it in meaning a bit less pathological than you clinicians. I think most older tele skiers are tinkers. Frugal, tinkers, contrarian, and bordering on misanthropic?

                              I haven't ever handled that Onyx heel. It looks bulky and I wonder if you'd still hit it with the heel throw if left in place? I guess this whole discussion will eventually beg the question if there's enough market left to really engineer anything specifically for tele. The TTS seems to have found success in using existing parts. The block and the wire are the only "new" pieces it seems.

                              edit: nice brakes on that Z12!
                              Last edited by Matt J; 6 September 2013, 11:46 AM.