Swapping NTN Freedom Heel w/ Inserts

[Ian]

In the past I've used Binding Freedom inserts to swap back and forth between the alpine bindings I was required to use during the week while patrolling and AXLs to tele on the weekend. I swapped back and forth twice a week with no problem for two seasons.

Last night, I just mounted up my first pair of NTN Freedoms using inserts. My question is about swapping the heel riser, it seems like there is quite a bit of stress placed on the heel riser when pushing it in or snapping it out of the metal bracket. Has anyone had experience swapping out the heel piece on a regular basis?

Here are the solutions I've come up with so far, and I'd appreciate some imput,

Option 1. Maybe there is no problem at all, the Freedom heel risers can be swapped out repeatedly with no problem.

Option 2. Get another set of Freedom heel risers for the other set of skis I'm going to ski them on, so I don't have to swap them. Anyone know if I can get them from Scarpa/Rottefella (I can't find them online)?

Option 3. Use a different heel riser that has easily accessible screws, anyone had good luck using other brands of heel risers with the freedom (hammerheels, 01s, switchbacks, etc.)?

Thanks for the help.

[tele.skier]

Option 4. drill holes in the plastic heel piece insert, so you can access the mounting screws without removing the inserted plastic piece.

Option 5. Figure out a good working technique to dislodge the plastic pieces from the metal frame easily.....

The best way that I have found so far to accomplish option 5, is to roll the ski on it's side, then take a big flat head screw driver and depress the upper part of plastic insert's "wing". Once it clears the metal rail that retains it, it will pop out slightly on that side of the heel piece. Roll the ski onto it's other side and depress the other plastic wing past it's metal retaining rail, and the insert will pop right out easily. If the first side pops back in when you roll the ski, you can put a popsickle stick between the metal base and plastic insert, to keep it from re-engaging the metal frame when you roll it the other way.

I struggled with this too when I got my first pair of Freedoms, until someone mentioned doing it this way, and it's quite easy to do if you have a big screw driver handy... good luck.

To insert it, hook the center "tooth" of the plastic piece under it's corresponding metal tooth on the center of the metal frame, then push the plastic piece downward until you hear both plastic "wings" snap as they pass their respective metal rails that retain them...

[James]

I broke one of the metal wings the first time I tried to get them off. Thankfully Scarpa sent me a new one no charge.

Those damn heel prices are as annoying as 7TM climbing wires.

[Paul Lutes]

When the whole Freedom-heel-is-too-low-and-prone-to-lifter-collapse thing broke, I took the lazy way out and switched to HH/Axle heel lifters which are higher and never collapse, and have been very happy with them so far. I do not, however, however, use inserts and therefore can't address the idea of repeatedly swapping out the HH/Axl heels. When I was actually using HH/Axls before NTN, I would routinely swap around the entire binding, including the heel, which I was mounting on adapter plates, so I can't really see doing essentially the same thing with inserts as being any different.

[gofor311]

Man, I was just about to post about these inserts. I would imagine if you remove the bindings the way tele.skier recommends you won't have many problems. I'd say you'd probably work them a touch loose over time if you're prying at them twice a week though.

Any thoughts on whether the inserts are worth it in the long run? I'm in a similar boat, I definitely prefer to work patrol in alpine gear since my resort gets pretty boilerplate-esque on the weekends, but tele in my free time. Are the insets worth the trouble when you have ~20 inserts per ski?

[telorti]

gofor311...If you haven't seen it, you might want to check out the Swiss Cheese Experiment thread on the TGR tech talk forum. Several pictures of skis with lots of insert!

[Ian]

gofor311, I have found inserts to work great for that situation. Swapping only takes 10-15 minutes once you get your system down. That time is totally worth it to me in terms of the money saved by using the same ski alpine and tele.

I'm going to try out using one pair of Freedoms for two pairs of skis this year. I'm a little nervous that I'll get frustrated when there is an unexpected dump and I have to swap bindings onto my pow skis in the morning.

We'll see how I like them in this application, but for the routine work week/ weekend swap they work perfectly.

[cesare]

Our whole demo fleet has inserts for both 22 Designs and Marker Baron bindings. We swap entire bindings every time a ski goes out all winter. The inserts and machine screws are in the same condition they were in when we installed them.

I do think some bindings can be drilled by hand but others work a lot better when you use a drill press. Members of that latter group would be NTN Freedom and all Dynafits.

[tele.skier]

As I said, I had this same issue and mangled a heel insert on the first few trys....

I believe that Nils (who's contributions are missed here) responded to the TTips thread about removing the plastic insert with this answer. After I tried this suggestion, and got the hang of it, I think it's actually easy to do. If you carefully read what I wrote in my discription and try it that way, It's an "Ahaaa" moment when the plastic insert pops out

When I roll the ski on it's side and push the wing in with the screw driver, the opposite frame rail is against the bench surface, so I am not prying between the frame and the plastic. I am pushing the top of the plastic wing inward as opposite frame rail rests against the bench. The plastic wing I am pushing on automatically pops past the rail that retains it when it's depressed far enough... Gently roll the ski over, depress the other plastic wing with the screw driver and the second wing will pop over it's retaining rail and the whole plastic insert will then pop and be clear of the side retaining rails. Pull the plastic piece up and rearward and the tooth in the back disengages also, releasing the plastic insert completely.

I just went and removed an insert to remind myself how much force it takes to depress the wing of the plastic. I use a fat 12 inch flathead screw driver, and it can't be done without having the opposite frame rail resting solidly against something solid.. *(which means doing it on the snow surface is probably not going to be solid enough unless it's bulletproof snow...) It definately takes a bit of force to depress the wing far enough to make it pop. I don't thing anyone could remove the plastic insert by depressing the wings with their bare hands.

I should probably make a video of the technique, if it continues to elude people.....

[gofor311]

Thanks! Definitely appreciate the advice. Sounds like I'll be mounting up this year with some inserts (with liberal amounts of beer).

[SteveK]

Those damn heel prices are as annoying as 7TM climbing wires.

Anyone have thoughts on using a different heel piece like Paul? Looking for reliability (ie. not collapsing), lighter weight, and ease of use, in no particular order.

[VinylTelemarker]

The best way that I have found so far to accomplish option 5, is to roll the ski on it's side, then take a big flat head screw driver and depress the upper part of plastic insert's "wing". Once it clears the metal rail that retains it, it will pop out slightly on that side of the heel piece. Roll the ski onto it's other side and depress the other plastic wing past it's metal retaining rail, and the insert will pop right out easily. If the first side pops back in when you roll the ski, you can put a popsickle stick between the metal base and plastic insert, to keep it from re-engaging the metal frame when you roll it the other way.

I struggled with this too when I got my first pair of Freedoms, until someone mentioned doing it this way, and it's quite easy to do if you have a big screw driver handy... good luck.

Thanks to the dude on backcountry.com who steered me to this piece of advice. Relieved to discover that my mangling prying efforts have not destroyed the heel piece insert. Looks like it'll do it's job on a new pair of skis. Whew!

[-E-]

Great method that option #5. So Nils get credit for it? Thanks. When I think of Nils I think of Chucky Gross too. Seems like every time I say one of them I would soon see the other.