Not That Fiddly

[Quadzilla]

There's always pretty good stuff on the main EYT website as Craig is in a good position to test and gather beta on the latest and greatest gear, BC issues and the like. I just got done reading his latest take on tech bindings and agree with some of it but don't agree on the "fiddle factor" of tech bindings especially Dynafit tech bindings. I think the term "fiddle" and "Dynafiddle" came from old school BC tele skiers as they lost parity and used the terms as excuses to slam the tech systems. WTBS, in the early days of Dynafit, the system was a bit more tricky to use than it is today, main reason is not so much the toe but the awkwardness of turning the heel post to raise and lower the climbing peg with a ski pole. Now days with the updated toe and the Dynafit specialized boot pin holes, stepping in is a breeze and you don't need to rotated the heel anymore to access the climbing modes. Bottomline today, no fiddle factor beyond trying any other form of BC ski access gear. Way easier than dealing with three pins, putting CRBs and 7TM back together after fall and dealing with icing of all the others as compared. So, if you are going to make a change to fixed heel BC transport, tech is a great option as compared to the others.

EYT link:

http://www.earnyourturns.com/25391/tech-bindings-how-well-do-you-fiddle/

[cesare]

I don't know anyone in our posse who has trouble with any generation of Dynafits. I think the people who fiddle likely have poor balance and would fiddle getting into a lot of tele bindings as well.

[Dostie]

Did either of you ^^ vote in the poll on that story?

[cesare]

I didn't because I have not used them on snow myself.

[Quadzilla]

I voted with a positive response. For me, I am big stiff and clumsy, never had a issue with Dynafits. IMO, if they are too complicated for you then you shouldn't ski outside the resort.

[Andy M]

I just got done reading his latest take on tech bindings and agree with some of it but don't agree on the "fiddle factor" of tech bindings especially Dynafit tech bindings. I think the term "fiddle" and "Dynafiddle" came from old school BC tele skiers as they lost parity and used the terms as excuses to slam the tech systems. WTBS, in the early days of Dynafit, the system was a bit more tricky to use than it is today, main reason is not so much the toe but the awkwardness of turning the heel post to raise and lower the climbing peg with a ski pole. Now days with the updated toe and the Dynafit specialized boot pin holes, stepping in is a breeze and you don't need to rotated the heel anymore to access the climbing modes.

I agree wholeheartedly on the lack of fiddle factor with Dynafits. I have been telemarking for over 30 years, including all of my BC touring for most of that time, but now I do most of my touring on Dynafits. I am quicker on transitions with Dynafits than I am with my tele gear, and I have less binding hassle overall. I recall reading Craig writing a while ago that the Dynafit folks in his group were slower, and my thought was along the lines of cesare's comment above: Maybe they would be slower with any type of gear, AT or tele

Craig, I responded to your poll in the 98% category. Before getting boots with the Quick-Step-In inserts, I probably had a 90% success rate, but those inserts make a noticeable difference, and I rarely miss now, even in difficult conditions. But even before these improved boot inserts came out, I have friends who converted from tele to Dynafit and were a bit apprehensive about the alleged fiddle factor, but they were all pleasantly surprised at the lack of issues after using them.

Quadzilla, the only thing in your post I don't agree with (but I know others do) is the issue with having to twist the heels on earlier models of Dynafits to raise and lower the climbing peg. I actually prefer these, but I realize others don't -- I recall one poster on Ttips who was completely confused by this and couldn't get it to work.

[Dostie]

I see the fiddle more than I hear it admitted to. But the point of the article was to draw attention to the poll to get a more "accurate" read on how many people really have to fiddle to get in to their tech bindings. So far it's about what I expected. It isn't much of an issue for most people.

PollDaddy doesn't allow much depth. IOW, one question at a time and to get a better handle on the fiddle factor a few other questions beg to be asked. Like, how many years have you used Dynafit? Which model? I know that the more I practice, the better I get. And some bindings are absolutely different in this regard.

Andy M gave a great example saying he used to be 90% of the time, now he's in first click 98% of the time with the power towers. Probably more like 99.5% but that wasn't an option in the poll. As good as one may or may not be, there's always room for improvement, either with technique, technology, or both. At some point though, who cares?

[Valdez Telehead]

"Way easier than dealing with three pins, putting CRBs and 7TM back together after fall and dealing with icing of all the others as compared."


The fiddling to tele is worth it. I like AT, like I like splitters as I'm non-denominational, unlike Quadz who seems to have a mental with folks who tele, like folks with kayaks who just don't get pack rafts, despite their obvious drawbacks. Sure I think MT bikes are bad on roads compared to a road bike, but they are having fun so why knock them. Who cares that you don't like tele gear. Maybe some tele gear bit you once or you had a bad dream about it. Granted if my skiing was just about "fiddle factors", I can make a list of things other than getting into my bindings, which takes a couple seconds more than AT, that can slow me down in the mountains.

My own experience with AT skiers is they get in and out of their binding just fine like anyone else who has some experience on their gear set. Sure in a mountains race I'm toast. But at a changeover from skinning to skiing in backcountry touring situation, it makes no difference, in fact I think at the changeover tele's are quicker in the mountains. (I can prove it) Nearly every time the AT skiers have to removes their skis to get his skins off. Meanwhile
I'm starding around waiting much longer than an AT skier waiting for me at the trailhead as I stoop and bend into my O'1's. They come off much easier, as easy as an AT binding. Even solid AT skiers I tour with don't remove skins with skis on…because they would rather "fiddle" around and take their skis off because they don't learn how to do it. So do I dish AT cause they are not as efficient or whatever Quads Standard for Proper Mountain Ski Gear is? There is more to fiddling than just getting a ski on your foot. There is a whole tour.

What amazes me about AT bindings is how many companies make them and how expensive they are. How many AT tech bindings are out there. 20-30 by a dozen companies? Dynafit puts out so many varieties, of AT bindings each year who can keep track? That's not knocking AT gear, just the overproduction of slight variations on someone else's design.

Telemarkers lost parity? That's actually a compliment for the time before Dynafits when AT skier didn't have parity? I'm confused but still having fun dropping the knee.



Here's what I mean….A vid a few years ago showing a 2 minute transition minimizing fiddling because tele gear is sooooo inefficient and lacks parity. The other guy with my with was on AT and I had to wait for him to get his skis back on, but first he had to clean all the snow off his tech fitting from getting out of skis to begin with and stepping into deep snow. But that's OK, not bad. I have no icing issue if I don't remove the skis. You want fiddle factor? I can start with mittens and pole straps in cold weather!

[Quadzilla]

Quadzilla, the only thing in your post I don't agree with (but I know others do) is the issue with having to twist the heels on earlier models of Dynafits to raise and lower the climbing peg. I actually prefer these, but I realize others don't -- I recall one poster on Ttips who was completely confused by this and couldn't get it to work.

I was mainly referring to the earlier TLT and Comfort heel assemblies. For me they were always a bit tricky finding the right angle to put pole tip in. The later ST's are way easy and a non issue. however, not as easy and useful as the flip ups IMO.

[Quadzilla]

"Way easier than dealing with three pins, putting CRBs and 7TM back together after fall and dealing with icing of all the others as compared."


The fiddling to tele is worth it. I like AT, like I like splitters as I'm non-denominational, unlike Quadz who seems to have a mental with folks who tele, like folks with kayaks who just don't get pack rafts, despite their obvious drawbacks. Sure I think MT bikes are bad on roads compared to a road bike, but they are having fun so why knock them. Who cares that you don't like tele gear. Maybe some tele gear bit you once or you had a bad dream about it. Granted if my skiing was just about "fiddle factors", I can make a list of things other than getting into my bindings, which takes a couple seconds more than AT, that can slow me down in the mountains.

My own experience with AT skiers is they get in and out of their binding just fine like anyone else who has some experience on their gear set. Sure in a mountains race I'm toast. But at a changeover from skinning to skiing in backcountry touring situation, it makes no difference, in fact I think at the changeover tele's are quicker in the mountains. (I can prove it) Nearly every time the AT skiers have to removes their skis to get his skins off. Meanwhile
I'm starding around waiting much longer than an AT skier waiting for me at the trailhead as I stoop and bend into my O'1's. They come off much easier, as easy as an AT binding. Even solid AT skiers I tour with don't remove skins with skis on…because they would rather "fiddle" around and take their skis off because they don't learn how to do it. So do I dish AT cause they are not as efficient or whatever Quads Standard for Proper Mountain Ski Gear is? There is more to fiddling than just getting a ski on your foot. There is a whole tour.

What amazes me about AT bindings is how many companies make them and how expensive they are. How many AT tech bindings are out there. 20-30 by a dozen companies? Dynafit puts out so many varieties, of AT bindings each year who can keep track? That's not knocking AT gear, just the overproduction of slight variations on someone else's design.

Telemarkers lost parity? That's actually a compliment for the time before Dynafits when AT skier didn't have parity? I'm confused but still having fun dropping the knee.



Here's what I mean….A vid a few years ago showing a 2 minute transition minimizing fiddling because tele gear is sooooo inefficient and lacks parity. The other guy with my with was on AT and I had to wait for him to get his skis back on, but first he had to clean all the snow off his tech fitting from getting out of skis to begin with and stepping into deep snow. But that's OK, not bad. I have no icing issue if I don't remove the skis. You want fiddle factor? I can start with mittens and pole straps in cold weather!

Dude, according to Dostie, this is a all inclusive site so I can throw down my opinion and comparisons as I see them. I have plenty of years on all types of tele gear and still tele maybe 30-40% of the time. For me Tech AT is all about the up and I have a opinion that it is physically easier by a long shot as compared to big mountain tele. Now for you as a ski guide, Christ it would be expected that you would be faster and more efficient than your clients on whatever gear they are on.

BTW, That vid, hope you posted it as a joke and not what any kind of efficient transition would look like.

[WoW]

I work in a rental shop during the winter from time to time.
On a busy Friday evening or Saturday morning everyone in the shop dreads the dynafit rental process.
Schooling the customer alone takes 10-15 minutes. Recommendation is practice at home before hitting the hills.
Remember, pull up to lock the toe on the up and push down to unlock on the down. I still forget this step who knows how often.
And then, din adjustment. We have a magnifying glass in the separate dynafiit tool box.
How many screw drivers does it take to adjust the length(dedicated cordless with multiple batteries and attachments) then din setting...depends on the model but., two or more.
Heaven forbid the renter is female because only the latest and greatest in fiddle has a low enough din.
No fiddle factor? Give me a ****ing break!

[cesare]

Those are the people I was talking about. A few of them might get it but most will give up the sport for one reason or another. A good percentage of the demo at WildyX went out to people who could not buckle their boots. They need to work on their balance.

[WoW]

Uh, I was actually commenting about what a pain in the ass the binding is to set up for rentals. It has nothing to do with the people renting other than a lack of experience.
About four alpine or three splitboards can be rented in the same amount of time it takes for one dynafiddle and no magnifying glass or additional screwdrivers are required.

[Valdez Telehead]

Q. How long does it take to fit a tele skier? (ignoring the shoe lace tying instruction and leather treatment protocol.)
A. No one knows.

[cesare]

I'm not disagreeing with that, Bob. Just having a little fun. We rented Markers and 22 Designs at Wildy. Biggest problems I had with it was we used inserts so every rental I had to mount bindings. And putting Axls together requires no small amount of fiddle with the toe plate. Markers were easy to mount but then my fecked up shoulders wouldn't allow me to put the boot in the binding on the bench to set it up. I could do it with the ski on the floor. So mount the binding on the bench, then put the ski on the floor to set it up for the boot, going back and forth between floor and bench for each ski. I would much rather have had a fleet of Dynafits permanently mounted than to deal with mounting bindings for every demo customer.