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  • Switching bindings between skis

    Very pleased to have received via UPS this morning a pair of new Voile V8s. Going to stick with the Axls again this year despite wanting to shave some weight. The Axls are on a pair of Voile Insanes, but I'd like to be able to use them for both the V8s and the Insanes. I'm thinking quiver killers, but I have no experience with them. How are they meant to be used? An occasional switch? Or can they be switched out on a more frequent basis? Is that the ideal solution?Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Quiver killers are the answer. As with any machine threaded insert, you can't just power drive 'em in all the time 'cuz if you cross thread 'em and than apply power you've destroyed the value of your insert. Just make sure you start the screws by hand a few threads, then power drive 'em. I also suggest using plumbers tape for a bit o' lubrication and sealing out moisture so they don't rust shut. It does mean checking that they are tight on a regular basis though.

    Ideally you should have two pair of Axls. At least, that's what Chris tells me at 22D.

    ain't no turn like tele!

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    • #3
      I wouldn't power drive the machine screws. They don't go in very far and you shouldn't need much torque to get a good grip. We use them on all our demo skis with a long stemmed Allen wrench. You just spin it between your thumb and forefinger until it stops and then tighten it at most a quarter turn from there. We switch back and forth between 22 Designs and Marker bindings every week with no problem. Super easy.

      It would be a good idea to drill holes for the quiver killers with a drill press but not necessary if you are really careful unless you are mounting tech bindings in them. In that case, use a drill press.
      Last edited by cesare; 13 September 2013, 04:34 PM.

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      • #4
        Thanks for the feedback. The guys at SkiAK are familiar with installing them, so I'll let them do the job (seems like too tight of a tolerance for my comfort). I figured you'd want some type of goop on the screw whenever re-inserting the bindings, but hadn't thought of plumbers tape. What about a screwdriver with a fine torque setting on it in order to get a consistent tightness on all the screws? Do they make such a thing?

        Yah, 2 pairs of Axls--PM my wife and let her know!

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        • #5
          I'd use a drop of blue loctite.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by cesare View Post
            I'd use a drop of blue loctite.
            Yep, some form of thread lock. However, I use the stuff that Puder Luder sells. Because Locktite eats some binding plastics (BD O1). I also use a 12 volt Porter Cable cordless screw gun set at a low torque setting to spin the screws quick as I switch bindings from ski to ski or to switch bindings on one pair of skis. No problems in three seasons of doing this.

            "There's a whole lot of reward on the other side of risk."

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            • #7
              Originally posted by cesare View Post
              I'd use a drop of blue loctite.
              That or Vibra-tite. Actually, someone once reported that loctite ate through the plastic that 22 Designs used for its Hammerhead bindings (I have no first-hand knowledge of this, but I believe someone should page Whitehonkey as I recall he either experienced it or talked to someone at 22 Designs about it), so you might to just go with the Vibra-tite to be safe:

              http://bindingfreedom.com/Threadlock...-30ml-4030.htm

              You can probably find it cheaper online or your local shop may sell you some.

              You probably need to apply some every 3-6 change-outs. I'd also grab one of those small $0.59 3mm allen drivers at your local hardware store and add it to your day kit, or if you have one of those small "buddy-tool" gizmos, just get a 3mm driver to add into the mix.

              It takes me about 5 minutes to switch bindings from one ski to the next using the same type of allen driver that Casare mentioned. I have Switchbacks but I did score a second set of heel pieces and if I had to switch those out too, it would probably be another 5 minutes.

              And, I'm not particularly good with tools and have installed over 100 inserts using a hand drill. It's easy to get it right, but I wouldn't start with your new pair of V8's if you go DIY, at least not if you have my learn-by-trial-and-screw-up approach.

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              • #8
                Yes, I had a few BD heel blocks melt out using Locktite. The Vibra-tite works fine.

                "There's a whole lot of reward on the other side of risk."

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                • #9
                  Forgot about the loctite/plastic issue. I haven't seen it myself but we actually don't use anything on our demos.

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                  • #10
                    Inserts are pretty good. I have them on 3 pair of touring skis because I didn't want to buy multiple pairs of NTN freedom bindings. I have only been using inserts for 1 season, and so far they seem OK.

                    A few things:
                    BE accurate installing them. It's better to take a little extra time and get them "On the money", then have to move a poorly located insert later. I have done that already.. Watch that the drill bit doesn't wander on skis with metal top sheets (been there, did that)

                    With NTN freedom bindings, inserts allow you to remove the brakes for touring in contrast to a wood screw installation where you either install the brakes or not,... and your skis are always one way or the other.

                    The insert driving tool doesn't thread into the insert, so you have to watch out that the epoxy doesn't drip into the insert threads. I thread a bolt into the insert with axle grease on it, drive the insert in, wipe the excess epoxy that pushes out around the insert, then back the screw out and wipe it and regrease to use on the next insert,... repeat...

                    I always have multiple skis with me in case of breakage on a ski day. If you only have one pair of bindings and 5 pair of skis with inserts, breaking a binding means you have ZERO working pairs of skis. Inserts can save you money on buying multiple pairs of bindings,... but having 2 pair of bindings means a broken binding doesn't take you off the snow... I have both NTN bindings, but only 1 pair of freedom bindings. If I break a freedom binding (like I did last year) all my touring skis were unable to be used, and I was back on my resort skis for the week that it took to get a replacement binding from scarpa.

                    Personally, I don't crank up on my bindings like skiers with very active bindings do. I tend to push down to flex my entire ski, but I do wonder how inserts will hold up for skiers who use the can opener effect to drive their ski tips. I suppose it's no worse than cranking on a wood screw installation, but it's gonna leave a BIG hole if it pulls the insert out,...

                    after this season, I'll have a more educated opinion of inserts. For now, they seem to work OK, but I don't want to prematurely endorse them 100% just yet.
                    Last edited by tele.skier; 14 September 2013, 09:18 AM.
                    the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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                    • #11
                      Just mount the bindings on your V8's and look for another binding. After a few days on the V8's, you will not ride the Insanes anymore anyway. Just wait till after rock season to move those bindings.

                      Yes you can buy a torque limiting screw driver, but the cost is high for a good one $100. You do not need much torque. Remember that allen wrench Voile included with there screws for the Insane inserts? They kept it small so you could not apply a lot of force.

                      Whenever I put screws into inserts I apply a small dab of paint/whiteout/marker in the twelve o'clock position on the head of the screw. Especially if I have used a locktite type product. A quick look tells you if the screw has moved. Actually I do that with all mounts, but I have only had inserts get loose.

                      Looking forward to hearing your review. Where do you ski? BC, resort, both? I have many days on the Insanes (love them), and now am V8 curious.

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                      • #12
                        Another option for those who have to have release bindings is complete sets of Safeouts. More expensive but it's only a few minutes work to swap over, no tools needed. Can be done at the carpark with gloves on.

                        You have to do the research however on pin lines among different bindings. Axls and Hammerheads (my quiver) vary by about 5mm I believe. That's no big deal.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks. Lots of good information here. dewam, I ski backcountry, and I concur with your prediction regarding not wanting to go back to the Insanes once I start skiing the V8s, but I'm going to make an effort to keep the V8's from meeting rocks, and that means I'll have to be switching up skis throughout the year depending on area and conditions. Good call on marking screw position.

                          Here's to hoping for good turns by the end of the month! Last year, end of September:
                          Click image for larger version

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dschane View Post
                            It's easy to get it right, but I wouldn't start with your new pair of V8's if you go DIY, at least not if you have my learn-by-trial-and-screw-up approach.
                            Good advice. And a drill press is a huge help if you have access to one.
                            It's turns! Of course it's worth the hike!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jfb View Post
                              And a drill press is a huge help if you have access to one.
                              It certainly provides added confidence, but having never used one, I personally wouldn't say it's a huge help. I run a pilot hole that I gradually increase with 2 or 3 drill bits until I get to the F bit. Works nicely, albeit more labor intensive than those who are steady enough to do the punch and drill two-step.

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