Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Idea for Meidjo tour mode

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Idea for Meidjo tour mode

    Let me start by saying I love how the Meidjo skis. I improved my telemark technique more in 3 days with the Meidjo than 5 years on 75mm. I think the fast engagement helps me get the back ski on edge with less work. This binding is like cheating... plus it tours well and offers more safety because of the release function.

    My only complaint is with the red stick and fiddly wire during transitions. I inevitably take the entire ski off to clean out the cavity and it still takes a few tries to get the wire to grab the stick.

    Idea: now that the ramped spring box allows step-in without using the red stick, its only real purpose is for tour mode. Instead, what if we could design a cammed lock that lets the spring box sit against the flexor during step-in and normal use, and spaces the spring box off of the flexor in tour mode to prevent grabbing the duck butt? This would allow getting rid of the red stick/wire clip/touring plate entirely. In theory it could allow filling in the bottom of the spring box to make it completely flat and reduce snow packing.

    I'm not sure how to make this, but I think it would look something like the outlaw touring cam, except pushing the claw back instead of forward:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	outlaw-plastic-parts_12x-560x196.jpg Views:	0 Size:	30.1 KB ID:	101619
    Curious if anyone has thought about or tried something like this.

  • #2
    i have been thinking about eliminating that bit too. I don't have those bindings, but i might come next year. And i don't want to drill a bunch of new holes in all my skis. So i was thinking about adding a riser to reuse my current holes + maybe add two new holes. result height should be about the same as outlaws/axls/others. Once i do that, i was thinking that i could make it so the claw portion was supported by the riser for step in, but move that portion of the riser out of the way for tour, allowing the claw to drop too low to engage the duckbutt. then ditch the stub axle, and cover the entire bottom of the claw with UHMW anti ice tape. This is conceptually the same as using a low heel elevator to keep the claw from engaging.

    Comment


    • #3
      I agree, the Meidjo skis really really well. It's the first NTN/TTN binding I've liked. And I agree, the red stick & wire aren't a good solution for enabling tour mode. Now that they're not needed for stepping into the claw, they should be done away with.

      I don't think the answer, though, is more gizmos. I like jason's solution, just dropping the whole springbox down. It'll take some clever design to prevent ice packing, but it seems doable. It needn't drop the full 16mm (the distance from the flat upper surface of the springbox to the top surface of the claw). I'm thinking a giant rotating plate that has a standard heel pad for downhill, and, when you rotate it 180°, a taller heel + underclaw recess.

      ​​Knowing that I'm a broken record: With boots that have good rearward ROM, you can have the heel elevated and still ski fine on the flats. Maybe if you're crossing the Harding Icefield or something, having things totally flat would be worth it. But for most times when you're earning turns, it's fine. Hopefully Scarpa's new boots have 60° ROM like I was told, but even then, we've seen enough mods lately that having a flat-on-ski mode probably isn't worth it if it requires a bunch more gizmos.

      Comment


      • #4
        That's a good idea... a half-riser for touring that's high enough so you don't step on the claw, and flips down to let you step in. You'd still have to step out of the toe. The benefit of something that spaces out the spring box is that you could transition while keeping the toe in. But a heel spacer would be a lot easier to hack together than something that mounts to the spring box or flexor.

        If Pierre is reading, maybe he can engineer the spring box spacer :-)

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by jtb View Post
          a half-riser for touring that's high enough so you don't step on the claw, and flips down to let you step in. You'd still have to step out of the toe. The benefit of something that spaces out the spring box is that you could transition while keeping the toe in.
          I guess I'm not following. At the top, you just spin the plate around, and then stomp down (assuming there's no ice buildup in the claw). At the bottom, you have to step out to put your skins on anyway. Yeah for rolling terrain someone might want some intermediate ins/outs, but for most users most of the time, I'd think it would work well.



          Comment


          • #6
            Yeah, I was talking about the transition from ski to tour. With something like the Outlaw cam, that would be possible without stepping out of the toe. But I agree it's much lower priority than making the tour to ski transition easy, which the heel spacer idea would accomplish.

            Comment


            • #7
              A sliding Fritchi tecton or vipec heel with its 3 riser levels for Crispi Rando boots could work for keeping the second heel above the claw for tour for a way to go from tour to ski without removing the ski but I think ski to tour would still need stepping out. On the plus side it adds the (heresy?) option of locking the heel with a good heel unit. A lot of the ski touring areas in Australia whereI live are rolling ground which means a way to switch modes without stepping out of the binding is very desirable. Skis like the Voile Ultravector BC and Madschu Annum are popular here because the pattern base reduced the need for skins on the rolling ground.
              Last edited by Goski; 28 June 2020, 02:34 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Interesting that you bumped this now. I've modeled a cam to hold the spring box back for touring which might do the trick, but I haven't had a chance to print it yet. I've been camping and hiking in Great Basin for the last week. I'll post an update after I've had a chance to try it, likely in the next couple of weeks.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jtb View Post
                  Interesting that you bumped this now. I've modeled a cam to hold the spring box back for touring...
                  Yeah, I've got something in the works too. Another project has seized my imagination at the moment, but there a couple Meidjo fixes that could be killed with one stone. Excited to see what you guys have been cooking up!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jtb View Post
                    Interesting that you bumped this now. I've modeled a cam to hold the spring box back for touring which might do the trick, but I haven't had a chance to print it yet. I've been camping and hiking in Great Basin for the last week. I'll post an update after I've had a chance to try it, likely in the next couple of weeks.
                    Loking forward to seeing it too. My city Melbourne went back into more stringent lockdown last week for 6 weeks or more that stops us travelling out of the greater metro area for recreation. That mean the heart of our ski season will be missed so I'm in no rush to mount my new Meidjo V2.1s. Just picked up some used but in excellent condition TX Pros with AT heel inserts so a sliding Fritschi AT heel is more attractive now to use for a lower heel riser to ue for tour mode to keep my 2nd heel away from the claw. I'll wait a while before drilling any heel holes.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Goski View Post

                      Loking forward to seeing it too. My city Melbourne went back into more stringent lockdown last week for 6 weeks or more that stops us travelling out of the greater metro area for recreation. That mean the heart of our ski season will be missed so I'm in no rush to mount my new Meidjo V2.1s. Just picked up some used but in excellent condition TX Pros with AT heel inserts so a sliding Fritschi AT heel is more attractive now to use for a lower heel riser to ue for tour mode to keep my 2nd heel away from the claw. I'll wait a while before drilling any heel holes.
                      A flaw in the idea os using a Fritschi heel is that the lowest release setting is about a DIN 6 so if the Meidjo release rension for tele mode it plus the heel release tension could mean an overall release value that is too high. A flip away riser to keep the boot 2nd heel high enough not to engage the claw is probably the simplest mod to allow the red stick to be done away with in a v2.1. Might mean ditching the standard Meidjo heel for one with better riser options.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I tried a couple of designs but am still iterating on this. I made a little wedge that slides over the pivoting U-bolt that holds the spring box, and it did keep the spring box back for touring mode, but it also slid up under the flex plate, rotated, and broke in telemark mode.

                        I have an idea for a simpler way to stand the spring box off of the flex plate, but am struggling with how to keep the part in the right place in different modes.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	710x528_32139675_17014755_1595265221.png
Views:	48
Size:	374.6 KB
ID:	103019
                        https://www.shapeways.com/product/XZ...jo-touring-cam

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Interesting! My thought was to do it at the other end of the springbox. Can you post a few photos of your piece in-situ?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It's a little hard to see when in place, but here are the pictures.

                            In telemark mode, the little plastic wedge sits under the flex plate:
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	87CrSq5oBqjvBZ1h4kWz_iKask6I_jYKscaLWFZpMKsWLuKauPETHbUC9Od2Ta40Ati3jy5cBgkAvxT8sM_1Anw8sQRZJb5K3amr9sh6oj1xBpez3oyTAAmTx7UfIP1wB22pZqqIm7Y=w800.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	103022

                            With your heel slightly raised, slide the wedge back and up with your finger so it sits between the flex plate and spring box:
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	wqDnFyTfJwdYe8afWKRc7adyQFRfqyuhat1YxBRtmrd3_LzYWNEp8mHyby6nQkLOELRT0P-WxPAjQuaOob3IEpMNSQeJYUOsxT2txIcEHwDPMWDIOPTJHNlt6r9WOt7015B_GxuSOYg=w800.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	105.1 KB
ID:	103023

                            Now step down, and the duckbutt slides out of the spring box for touring mode:
                            Click image for larger version

Name:	c9staAYTwLzBVHuQdGykGrbyGjuV2EaxJ16ez1raMTe7W2DJ7wo4w2uHQ2xF8wuItjtS1vkJSyZne94ZV175yt58xXD1n_Krdpe7reEdvNS8zH1Uvp3fBqFhGqehctKNC1d5nmoJQrg=w800.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	114.2 KB
ID:	103024

                            To resume telemark mode, pull the spring box up until the duckbutt engages and pulls it back from the wedge. Without the springs to hold it in place, the wedge slides down and forward, back under the flex plate.

                            It's very simple, but unfortunately it doesn't work for very long. My next idea is an oval tab that you spin to get it between the flex plate and spring box.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              That's great! I'd be surprised if it easily broke when made from Shapeways nylon. Is that what you tested, or just a home-printed prototype? Have you tried flipping it into place with gloves on? Is there room for a bigger grip tab on it, or would it not be able to rotate?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X