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Question for Meidjo users with alpine heel

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  • Question for Meidjo users with alpine heel

    Hello all, this site's had some great information but I haven't been able to find what I'm looking for on current posts so I figured I'd ask. So, to set the stage I'm looking for a Frankentele solution and am curious if the alpine heel on the Meidjos will meet my needs. (I know I'll take a lot of heat for not committing to one or another, but let's get over that) From watching the alpine heel video on vimeo and reading that the din of the heel is about 1, I'm worried it won't hold up to regular alpine use. Also, I'm worried that it might feel too mushy really driving the boot when carving on groomers. Can anyone who has used the heel comment? Is there any way to firm up the tech heel to a slightly higher din setting? Would it be better to go with a Tele-tech system with a tech heel?(If anyone has any experience with this I'd also be very interested)

    The Meidjo system looks really interesting because it's easy to swap on hill mid run(my favorite run I'd alpine the top, tele the bottom) and can be outfitted with brakes, which are two points I really want to make sure I hit when doing the Frankentele set up.

  • #2
    TR,

    Meidjo in alpine mode is indistiguishable from skiing in a "normal" AT binding. Completely. Retention. Release. The only difference is tour mode is more complicated (cocking the M springbox and then locking it down or unhooking it to make telemark or alpine turns).

    ain't no turn like tele!

    Comment


    • #3
      I use the Meidjo alpine heel pretty often, and it works great. However, you need to be connected at the duck butt (NTN second heel) to use it. The retention is too weak to use with only the toe and real heel connected.

      If you're looking to build a TTS setup with alpine mode, the common approach would be to use a regular tech heel and remove the telemark heel connection before stepping into the alpine heel. Compared to the Meidjo heel, this means you have to step out of the toe to remove the alpine heel, then re-connect the telemark heel to switch between alpine and tele modes. With the Meidjo alpine heel, switching between modes is a bit easier as you only flick the alpine heel with your pole (not quite as easy as it sounds, but easier than stepping out of the toe and flipping on a tele heel).

      I guess it would be possible to use a Meidjo alpine heel with your telemark heel still connected in a TTS setup. I personally wouldn't do that because the release characteristics are unknown and possibly dangerous. It's safer than using a standard tech heel with the telemark heel connected (don't do this!), but definitely less safe than using a standard tech heel without the telemark heel.

      I think what you're looking for is a standard tech heel that you can connect/disconnect with your pole, like the Meidjo heel. As far as I know that doesn't exist. So you're left with the options above -- use a heel with predictable release characteristics but step out to change modes, or use the Meidjo heel with your tele heel connected and take your chances.

      Comment


      • #4
        To answer your other question, the Meidjo heel does not have any adjustment for tension. You can play with the heel gap to make it more or less likely to release, but again, I wouldn't recommend it.

        If your Franken-tele setup has an NTN heel connection (especially if it's releasable), then the Meidjo heel may work for you. But if that's the case, what's better about your setup than just going with a full Meidjo binding?

        Allan Fici, iBjorn, and others have TTS with a tech heel. You can see some of their pictures here: https://www.backcountrytalk.com/foru...bindings/3298-

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for the answers! If the Meidjo binding performs just like a tech AT binding (per Dostie) then I think it would meet my needs. I was just worried about the 1 din heel release. Bombing down and having one ski "switch" to tele mode would not be ideal, especially if not expecting it.

          It's safer than using a standard tech heel with the telemark heel connected (don't do this!)
          Can I ask why here? If the TTS route was how I went, I was thinking about pairing either a G3 onxy heel or Vipec heel with the system (using either B&D, OMG, or Kreuz). Once the heel releases, with any of these systems (including Meidjo) you're basically in a tele binding. I know Meidjo has the best release available for tele, but wouldn't it be fairly similar for all above options? Or would the TTS heel make the rear AT heel less likely to properly release? The tech heels I'm looking at I believe only have a forward release, so I figured it would be similar.

          If your Franken-tele setup has an NTN heel connection (especially if it's releasable), then the Meidjo heel may work for you. But if that's the case, what's better about your setup than just going with a full Meidjo binding?
          Right now the only reason I was thinking TTS/AT heel was that it could potentially save some weight when touring with the springs removed, as I typically AT when in the back country. This might be negated by the fact that the possible heels I'm looking at are some of the heavier touring oriented ones out there. So weight and the concern that the Meidjo wouldn't perform as well as just an AT binding in alpine mode.

          Allan Fici, iBjorn, and others have TTS with a tech heel. You can see some of their pictures here: https://www.backcountrytalk.com/foru...bindings/3298-
          Thanks for posting this! I had looked for just this information but wasn't able to find this post.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TreborRedins View Post
            I was just worried about the 1 din heel release. Bombing down and having one ski "switch" to tele mode would not be ideal, especially if not expecting it.
            The Meidjo alpine heel does have a ~1 DIN *lateral* release, because it's meant to be used in addition to the NTN heel, which has its own retention characteristics. It rotates on the post much more easily than other tech heels. The forward release is higher, not sure what but maybe ~5 on a DIN scale?

            Originally posted by TreborRedins View Post
            Or would the TTS heel make the rear AT heel less likely to properly release?
            Yes, that's my concern, and it's about lateral release. TTS systems already lack a reliable lateral release function. Add to that a tech heel which also has questionable lateral release characteristics and you have a recipe for spiral tibia fracture. I wouldn't be worried about forward release, since as you said, the TTS heel shouldn't affect that much.

            Originally posted by TreborRedins View Post
            Right now the only reason I was thinking TTS/AT heel was that it could potentially save some weight when touring with the springs removed, as I typically AT when in the back country.
            If you're going to use the AT heel with the tele springs removed, the Meidjo heel won't work as the lateral release will be too weak to keep you in the binding under normal skiing. You'll need to use a standard tech heel with a 5+ DIN or DIN-equivalent. If you do that, you can also use the AT heel when the TTS springs are installed, but you'll need to disconnect the telemark heel and hold it down with a bungee cord. That seems to be the most common approach, as seen in the linked thread.

            Comment


            • #7
              not sure what but maybe ~5 on a DIN scale?
              Hmm, now I'm a little worried. I feel like with a 5 din there's a decent chance on an awkward landing or catching a powder hidden mogul I'd pop out of the heel.
              If I did go with another alpine heel, I would be using a OMG/B&D/Kreus system. I think I'd try to use the Vipec, and that way I'd get a din tech toe release, though with this system, I think only the OMG would work. The Vipec heel does not have a lateral release so in that case there'd be no harm in skiing in alpine mode with the tele lever flipped right? (Also not sure if the lateral range of the Vipec toe would ruin the TTS system.)

              Comment


              • #8
                Kreuz heels also have lateral release. The GT series has adjustable settings for both forward and lateral heel release. The TT series are fixed at ~10 DIN. I'm pretty sure all tech heels have lateral and forward release.

                You may be confusing lateral heel release with lateral toe release. Tech toes don't have a lateral release function, with the exception of the Fritschi Vipec/Tecton and Trab TR-2. As far as I know nobody has used any of those in a TTS setup. The Fritschi toes likely have too much plastic in critical parts to hold up to the forces of telemark. You can read more about that here: https://www.backcountrytalk.com/foru...gs-and-release

                Again, I think your problem with the Meidjo heel is not going to be the ~5 DIN forward release, but the ~1 DIN lateral release. It's not going to hold your heel in the binding unless you have something else helping it. Pretty much any other tech heel will be fine, you just need to disconnect the TTS heel before stepping in. The bigger question is which tech toe to use. A lot has been written about that, and I don't have anything to add since I haven't built a TTS system (yet).

                Comment


                • #9
                  I’ve been meaning to chime in here. As jtb stated and linked, I have used the Meidjo with a SCTTT Kruezspitze tech heel and my thinking was if the Meidjo spring box breaks, then I can engage the tech heel and ski it parallel, leaving the Medjo in touring mode. I also skied this set up with they Meidjo in ski mode and tested to make sure it would release in a catastrophic situation. I could kick my ski off my boot on carpet. I know the RV was higher than the Meidjo alp heel but I’m not sure what the value is. My guess is it’s definitely 10+ DIN RV but I have not had it tested.
                  Function in disaster, finish in style.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I would like to intervene to give you some details on the alpine heel.
                    First of all, I would like to point out that this product was requested by ski patroler. They wanted a telemark binding that would lock in the alpine. I added a personal requirement: the possibility to switch from one mode to the other without taking off the boots while maintaining safety release.

                    The alpine heel strap is always used with MEIDJO in telemark mode, so with the duckbut engaged in the springbox. The user has to lift his heel and use his pole to advance the U pines. He locks his heel slamming it on the U.
                    The shoe is thus held in three points. It is a rigid system, and as the sole is supported, the below bends very little. We really have a correct alpine ensemble.

                    In rotation, the heel piece alone has a DIN level of about 2. This is more than enough because it is MEIDJO that manages the safety in rotation. The safety level of the U is close to the U of a Superlight dynafit, between 6 and 8.

                    Case of a hybrid MEIDJO + DYNAFIT alpine heel piece or other.
                    Combining MEIDJO with a Dynafit heel piece set to DIN 8 is very risky if used in telemark mode. It will be impossible to remove the shoes. If the MEIDJO is used in touring mode, this combination is possible. However, the modularity of switching from one mode to the other without removing the shoes is lost.

                    Advantage of THE M Equipment system
                    Several cases of use (lived):
                    1. I am in telemark, difficult passage, ice, bump or fatigue so I lock heel. As soon as I feel like it, I unlock and return to telemark mode without taking off my shoes.
                    2. I am in touring mode and I climb the slope with my skins. There is a downhill passage and then the climb continues. I lock the heel and slide on the skins. At the end of the descent, I unlock the heel and start climbing again. All this without bending down and in safety. Who hasn't been scared going down on the skins without the heel attached?


                    Case of safety:
                    The springbox provides rotational safety while the U provides frontal safety. In alpine mode, as the heel of the shoe is slightly raised there is no friction on the MEIDJO heel piece, so the rotational safety is effective. The safety level corresponds to the setting level chosen in telemark mode.
                    The U ensures a good hold of the shoe and in case of a frontal impact the shoe may unlock. In this case the user is in telemark mode. The release is partial.

                    It is important to know that more than one person out of four combine MEIDJO + alpine heel. This ranges from the occasional telemarker to the best mountain guide, via ski instructors.

                    The heel-piece is adjusted over a range of 18mm. It has a combined dynamic recoil of 10mm


                    Hope all the informations are clear.

                    Pierre From THE M Equipment

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Thanks Pierre, wasn't expecting to get a response from you! The Meijdo has all the components I'm looking for, I was just concerned that the alpine heel hold would not be firm enough. Since you chimed in, one more question for you if you don't mind - do you sell a full package or "the works" Meidjo? I was looking to get the brakes+heel+Meidjo main unit and I was wondering if there was a package deal where you could pick up everything at once.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Freeheellife.com has the Meidjo, brakes, and heel, and as a bonus the Meidjo is on sale (discounted by over $100). I assume that's because v3 is coming this year. I think that's as good a deal as you will find on the package.

                        I have the full setup and love it. The alpine heel is great for sketchy terrain where I'm not going to tele turn anyway. Thanks Pierre!

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