Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Putting skins on warm skis?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Putting skins on warm skis?

    In the "getting ready" thread both Cham and Allen talk about putting skins on skis that have been cooled. I have been putting my skins onto my skis in the comfort of my home for 40+ ski seasons, and actually question the sanity of those folks putting them on in the parking lot. Being a mature (old) person I do have some difficulty in changing my ways, but being inquisitive and lazy, I wonder what I am missing out on. If I set my skis outside to cool before putting my skins on will I get another couple thousand vert? Den

  • #2
    I try to cool my skis off and skins outside the door of my house before either putting them on my feet or loading them in the truck. I never put warm skis on when touring. it's and invitation to have them ice up. Unless it's spring skiing on a warm sunny day.
    Function in disaster, finish in style.

    Comment


    • #3
      Den, You could cool your skins the night before in teh fridge.

      This may address the concerns these guys raise.

      The only decision then being whether to use the vegetable crisper or the meat & cheese drawer.

      Comment


      • #4
        and actually question the sanity of those folks putting them on in the parking lot
        I have my skis outside by front door. Cold. I bring them in front hallway for a moment, put on skins, then put skis and skins outside again.

        Comment


        • #5
          Still do not get this (maybe I should) Why should they ice up? I put them on before leaving to save time. I assume they stick better when warm.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's not about the skins icing up. That is cured by hot waxing the plush with glopstopper every ten days or so. It's about glue sticking to the base. Not a problem if you do like Cham does but if you put skins on in the house and leave them in overnight, I would worry that the glue would get really attached to the ski. Also, in CO where the elevation difference between the house and the snow is quite large, even putting them on and leaving them outside sometimes keeps them too warm. Had it happen long ago and maybe it's just a superstition at this point. As it is, I find the glue on my skins too sticky until I've dragged them through some dog hair in somebody's truck. That or I actually remove some of the glue with paper bags and an iron.

            Comment


            • #7
              I had an issue once a few years back where I had just waxed, scraped and brushed new skis before fitting skins. I don't know if I did a bad job scraping/brushing or what but the skins picked up a bit of wax and were not nearly as sticky as new BD skins I had in the past. The thing is, they were perfect tackiness, they stayed put on the ski but peeled apart much easier. I sold the setup to someone else after a couple years of use and always wondered if they ever got to where they weren't sticky enough.

              Comment


              • #8
                Well, IMO, instead of a discussion of "what ifs" the bottomline is that skin glue and warmth is incompatible and if you mix the two the glue will break down. So, the basics are store skins in a cool place all the time and don't expose them to any form of warm including skis, cars, heater, garage et et. If you don't the glue will most certainly break down and glop up your skis and become a mess.
                "Just say no to groomed snow"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Allen: I have worried about that many times when I put the skis between the driver and passenger seats, but never experienced icing. Maybe setting them out while putting on boots is enough.

                  Toque: Perhaps the beer fridge?

                  cham: My skis always go rite next to the furnace to dry, and the skins hang close by to dry also. They only go out when I do. Works for me. Glad to hear you are not one of those parking lot people.

                  Mark: I don't get it either, that is why I started the thread.

                  cesar: You sir hit on a real problem. Occasionally where I ski, the final flog out can involve skinning. Due to fatigue or alcohol poisoning I have have set my skis next to the furnace with the skins on to dry overnight. This is a big mistake and has resulted in glue transferring to the base. After a few difficult lessons I have learned to never leave skins on overnight. Skins come off when I get home and are hung to dry. Skins go on just before leaving the house.

                  3pin: If my skins are too sticky, I just roll them after removing them from the skis instead of pressing them glue side together. A year or two worth of dog hair and dust seems to fix the problem. I do not use fluorinated ski wax as I believe it leads to the skin glue breaking down early. I have no science to back this up.

                  Quad: You just plain have that wrong. I agree that glue breaks down, but do not find that heat is the cause. Living in Alaska, my skins are not exposed to temps above those found in my furnace room, around 80*(F). Some years I never get around to putting skins away, so they live in the furnace room. I have found that the number of days before the glue breaks down (150-250) does vary, so I think the cause is something other than exposure to room temperature heat as that has remained a constant through many sets of skins.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    When I iron skins with paper bags or just to smooth out gloppy glue, I see puffs of steam come out from under the paper, which tells me that at least some of the problem with gloppy glue is contamination with water.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by dewam View Post
                      Quad: You just plain have that wrong. I agree that glue breaks down, but do not find that heat is the cause. Living in Alaska, my skins are not exposed to temps above those found in my furnace room, around 80*(F). Some years I never get around to putting skins away, so they live in the furnace room. I have found that the number of days before the glue breaks down (150-250) does vary, so I think the cause is something other than exposure to room temperature heat as that has remained a constant through many sets of skins.
                      Well, not convinced, heat is a big factor in skin glue breaking down. What is warm where you live is not warm here in Nevada. Additionally, want to kill your skins extra fast? go touring, put skins back in their skin bag, throw them in the garage for the off season(Summer) and see what the outcome will be. So, want to keep skins in top shape. After touring, dry thoroughly right away in a dry room, then store in a cool place for the off season. Skins are good to go without any prep..............
                      "Just say no to groomed snow"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Skin glue breaks down primarily through use, not temperature. Typically by the time my skins go bad from a few re-glues and use, I'm off to find new skis and new skins that I can trim to fit.

                        I dry my skins each night after ski, and put them back on "lightly" in the am in the warmth of my house and then into a warm car to the trailhead. They work fine that way. Skin glue sticking to bases has always been an issue, but with some rubbing alchohol and a rag, it comes off easily. Never surprised to find glue on bases. Sometime I put the skins on at home leaning them separate on the wall, bases down, and pull the skins slightly away from the bases.... til I press them fully in place right before I head out the door.
                        Last edited by Valdez Telehead; 28 November 2018, 02:08 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Arnold "The Terminator" Schwarzenegger
                          Hear me now and believe me later.
                          The solution to glue issues is quite simple. Get vacuum skins using a silicon based adhesive. They work. The care and feeding required is different than with glue-based skins, but is actually simpler and easier. You just have to "wash" them approximately every 5-10 days of use. They are immune to corruption from temperature or contamination from absorbing water. Dirt and pine needles can be easily wiped off and the suction can be restored by washing with warm soapy water and a tooth brush.

                          Seriously.

                          They have a bad reputation based on earlier versions, and may not be as reliable as ultra-sticky BD blue on sub-zero days but I've found they work fine with an STS tail clip and keeping the adhesive clean.

                          ain't no turn like tele!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The solution to glue issues is quite simple. Get vacuum skins using a silicon based adhesive.
                            I am about to try a pair.. I had read they can have problems, if the ski base isn't completely dry . So I will try them in really heavy wet snow and see how they work. I just want to be able to rip skins , with skis on, without dislocating my shoulder.
                            Last edited by chamonix; 28 November 2018, 02:56 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Dostie wrote,
                              Get vacuum skins using a silicon based adhesive....
                              They have a bad reputation based on earlier versions, and may not be as reliable as ultra-sticky BD blue on sub-zero days but I've found they work fine with an STS tail clip and keeping the adhesive clean.
                              I took them for a test run today, (18 F) skinning up at the resort on a mix of chalky and icy snow with some blowing powder.. Skis had been waxed two days before, then skied a resort day on Friday. I put the skins on cold, on a cold ski, with snow swirling around, as a good test of adhesion. At first, as I applied them, it seemed that they weren't going to stick to ski bases at all. But they did, as I pressed the skins against ski bases, and I clipped on the the tail clips. Initial glide was terrible, but it improved after maybe 1000' of skinning.
                              As I skinned up, I tried to get the skins to slide laterally, sliding the ski sideways on hard snow, but skins were still centered at the top of Jay Peak.
                              At the top of the skinning exercise, ripping skins was a dream. Just a light tug on the tails and they practically jumped off the skis. There was a bit of snow under the edges of one skin tip, and a bit of snow under one tail. Easy to wipe water or snow off the skin base with my hand..

                              I put the (warm) skins on again later in day, to climb, when a chair lift broke down..They worked fine bonding to the cold skis. Now I want to try them in cold powder..

                              One warning, I first tried to trim the skins with my G3 trimming tool. It didn't do a very good job, and scored a small, fine groove in the silicone adhesion film on bottom of skins.

                              skins I have were ordered here, "Kohla vacuum-base-2.0"
                              https://www.backcountry.com/kohla-va...climbing-skin?

                              though the actual skins are a blue color..

                              http://www.kohla.at/en/products/clim...cuum-base-2-0/

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	P1050746.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	576.6 KB
ID:	88725Vacuum base 2.0 skins
                              Last edited by chamonix; 10 December 2018, 08:11 AM.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X