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  • ScottyBob Headrush

    I have been training for the British Championships on G S Junior Race Tigers, which are great on hard piste, but no fun if any snow depth. I did bring the Scotties, hoping for fresh snow, which had one small fall. They were great fun, handling the cut up, over skied snow in the afternoon, and even a Black run with small moguls over an icy base. You can really chuck them around, the full wood core, slight rocker and significant camber make them a lively a joyous ski. But......hit the hard pack and they loose grip very quickly due to the camber. That said someone heavier than my 140 lb may fair better. Where the snow is grippy I have to work them hard, but am well reworded. I am wondering if I can take out some of the camber by storing the clamped to a board, will give it a try.

  • #2
    That won’t work telemarkmark. Skis do break down over time but just because there’s no or little camber doesn’t mean they will grip hard snow any better. Grip on harder snow has more to do with torsional stiffness and how damp the ski is. My Best hard-snow ski is a 173cm Blizzard Brahma. A very stiff, heavy ski and calm with tenacious in grip on hard snow. My Blizzard Zero G 95 in 178cm has very good hard snow grip, is calm and tours very well but gets tossed on the manky cut up resort junk.

    Sorry but Scotty Bobs skis are gimmicky junk (this is not directed at you) and not worth messing with other than, I’D get rid of them and get a ski worth skiing. He was trying to solve a problem that did not exist.
    Function in disaster, finish in style.

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    • #3
      I have been skiing ScottyBob's for close to 20 yrs. I have tried other skis during that time. I will agree to disagree with you. There is nothing gimmicky about ScottyBob's. Simple physics state Scotty is correct. I have converted several to Scotty's. Another thing - and this is bad for Scotty - It is very hard to wear a pair out. I have only bought new ones when the bases wear out. Still skiing as well as day 1.

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      • #4
        I thought Allan might upset some devotees. Allan, how much time have you spent on Scotties?
        A friend, better skier than me and more experienced has a narrower model and says it is a great piste ski.
        i shall treat mine to a full base grind and service, see it that improves them.

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        • #5
          Asymetrical skis are not a gimmick... I have the lesser copy of that idea, G3 tickets, which just have asymetrical sidecut, but not the offset of the scotty's. I've swapped skis with a friend (another NTN skier) who was a doubter. He was flabberghasted that they felt so different. One of the things they do is they force you to power up the uphill ski because it doesn't just skid along quietly, because it's not the same radius as the downhill ski's inside edge. If you have a lazy technique the uphill ski feels like it's going cockeyed because of the different radius and it will throw you off balance. If you adjust your technique to drive the uphill ski hard, then you find they carve like crazy... Not a gimmick.. but not something everyone likes either...

          Some years back I had my tickets mounted with bishop bombers and they were the quickest responding bump skis I ever had. Too many days in the bumps have turned them into soft flexing noodles so they don't have the grip they used to have, nor do they turn as aggressively for the same reason.

          But to address the original poster's issue, Skis don't have less grip due to having significant camber... if anything, they may loose grip due to a LOSS of camber as they age. There is no ski who's design works best everywhere. If that were true, then there would only be one design for all skis. All designs are a compromise of design features which enhance their performance in certain conditions, which is why few of us have only 1 ski. I have 10 pair mounted and usually bring at least 3 pair when I'm out skiing so I have choices. Your Scottys will never carve like a slalom race ski...

          On lift served pow days, I start out on a fat ski and usually go back to the truck to swap to a narrower ski once the place is cut to ribbons... The conditions change, so I change ski to match the new conditions.
          Last edited by tele.skier; 25 January 2020, 07:37 AM.
          the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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          • #6
            But, but, but ....... no one should have more than one pair of skis!!! If conditions change, the Indian must change! 😉

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            • #7
              Originally posted by telemarkmark View Post
              I thought Allan might upset some devotees. Allan, how much time have you spent on Scotties?
              A friend, better skier than me and more experienced has a narrower model and says it is a great piste ski.
              i shall treat mine to a full base grind and service, see it that improves them.
              I am definitely stirring the pot here. I skied them a couple time and absolutely hated them, garbage as far as I'm concerned and definitely gimmicky. They are mostly way over-cambered and not very versitle skis. Personally I don't need a radically asym ski to allow me to carve. I do quite well, thank you on symmetrical skis that are stout with good grip.

              Originally posted by tele.skier View Post
              Asymetrical skis are not a gimmick... I have the lesser copy of that idea, G3 tickets, which just have asymetrical sidecut, but not the offset of the scotty's. I've swapped skis with a friend (another NTN skier) who was a doubter. He was flabberghasted that they felt so different. One of the things they do is they force you to power up the uphill ski because it doesn't just skid along quietly, because it's not the same radius as the downhill ski's inside edge. If you have a lazy technique the uphill ski feels like it's going cockeyed because of the different radius and it will throw you off balance. If you adjust your technique to drive the uphill ski hard, then you find they carve like crazy... Not a gimmick.. but not something everyone likes either...

              Some years back I had my tickets mounted with bishop bombers and they were the quickest responding bump skis I ever had. Too many days in the bumps have turned them into soft flexing noodles so they don't have the grip they used to have, nor do they turn as aggressively for the same reason.

              But to address the original poster's issue, Skis don't have less grip due to having significant camber... if anything, they may loose grip due to a LOSS of camber as they age. There is no ski who's design works best everywhere. If that were true, then there would only be one design for all skis. All designs are a compromise of design features which enhance their performance in certain conditions, which is why few of us have only 1 ski. I have 10 pair mounted and usually bring at least 3 pair when I'm out skiing so I have choices. Your Scottys will never carve like a slalom race ski...

              On lift served pow days, I start out on a fat ski and usually go back to the truck to swap to a narrower ski once the place is cut to ribbons... The conditions change, so I change ski to match the new conditions.
              I said Scotty Bobs are junk and gimmicky. I did not say all asym skis are, I think you did. Look, I don;'t need that junk to carve trenches on hardpack. Peeps should learn how to ski, so you don't need these ridiculous band-aids.

              I'll bet I was one of the very first to mount 3 pins on the very first (late 90's) Elan hour glass skis. Our local Elan rep from our rep group asked me If I would mount them tele and do some on hill demos when they launched them and had the skeptical buyers skiing them. We had some fun with them and I remember one particular carvacious day where if you had enough speed and stayed on the edge long enough you could come all the way around loop-di-loop. Pretty funny but after a few days their story grew tiresome and we were back on our normal (at the time mid 70's-80 UF fairly straight skis, carving hard.

              I like you have too many skis but my quiver is backcountry biased. For area skiing I have my Blizzard Brahma's, big 184cm 115 UF Wagners, Voile Busters and some Faction Prime 3.0's. Mostly I ski the Brahmas except in deep snow. The Brahmas are beasts and can lay trenches if you know how to ski them. The Primes have the Lynx on them but If I'm going to hammer out runs on a soft snow day I'll swap over the Outlaws on the Primes since they're all mounted with BF inserts. Carry on
              Function in disaster, finish in style.

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              • #8
                IMO, calling something a gimmick means that it's design claims are false, so I don't think gimmick is the right word. You don't like them and some other people do, but the design isn't a placebo. That was my point. I skied those 182 tickets as my bump skis. When they had decent camber left in them they turned very aggressively. I thought the design worked pretty well for bumps for an 81mm underfoot ski.

                If we're comparing firsts,... I was the first guy to ever ski on the west point private lift area in 50mm three pin gear and misery sticks with boots that were essentially sneekers. I was also the first guy on that gear to have a ski completely fold under pressure and do a cartwheel down the hill with skis on my feet... and then not go to any hospital...
                the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

                Comment


                • #9
                  Gimmicky might not be the most accurate word to describe them. I'm sure they work for those that really need help carving hard pack. But the Scotty Bob's are like the kid that's trying a bit to hard and over does it. The crazy camber on some of the ones I saw made me shake my head. I hate skis like that that are over cambered, too unpredictable and they tend to be hooky in nature. I probably shouldn't say this but we make fun of skiers on Scotty Bob's. OK, I'm done now with my rant on them.
                  Function in disaster, finish in style.

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                  • #10
                    Perhaps to close my thread. I was not expecting the Headrush to become a great carving ski on the hard pack (I have a Junior GS Race Tiger for that), though some improvement is desired. I did ski it a few more runs, with care it does ski hardpack, just not that well.
                    When there is any grippy snow it is magic.
                    Typical piste conditions here in Scotland are hard and icy in the morning going to soft after lunch, so worth having both ski to hand.
                    With a good base grind & edges* and if I can get the camber to relax a bit, it will still be my choice for an all mountain ski (that is to suit my level of competence, which does not include no-fall zones), that is should the conditions be favourable.
                    * The art of edge angles is still a bit of a mystery, especially as the Headrush may need something away from the norm. I assume zero base angle and a sharper edge is where to start, as easier to file down edges to a larger angle. They definitely do not hook.

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                    • #11
                      I demoed a pair of ScottyBobs about 15 years ago or so. I couldn't assess the offset sidecut because of the other ski design choices. The ski was very soft and very sidecut. As a result, it was skittish unless held in a clean carve, so while it worked well on groomers it did not work well in steeps and bumps. And in groomers the softness still gave it a speed limit, though it was pretty stable given its softness. I would have been interested to try an asymmetric sidecut in a ski with more normal dimensions and stiffness otherwise. I remember that I did feel that transitions felt "smoother" on that ski, so perhaps the offset sidecut helped, but really hard to say on a ski that was different in every other aspect from what I wanted.

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                      • #12
                        Hey, I don't think the scottybobs are "awesome skis" either, but I have G3 ski tickets which are asymetrical skis without the scottybob offset. I actually think the tickets are awesome bump skis for reasons I mentioned above. At some point Matt, if we meet at alpental on a hardpack day, I'll swap skis for a run with you if you're on NTN gear. Maybe you'll like them, maybe not. They are kind of soft now but if you're not as heavy as I am they might still give you the weird asymetrical effect I spoke of above. I don't always ski them, but I generally bring them once spring skiing starts to dominate the conditions.
                        Last edited by tele.skier; 28 January 2020, 08:14 PM.
                        the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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                        • #13
                          One of the funnest mornings I've ever had on demo's was on G3 Tickets.
                          One of the least fun was on Bob Headrush's.
                          Lift served and proud of it.

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                          • #14
                            Owned the Tickets as well and they were pretty fun. I found the G3 Rapid Transits to be a much more versatile ski, or maybe it was those new fangled Freeride bindings that did it.

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                            • #15
                              Not sure you can compare the Ticket with a a ScottyBob. Is the shorter side of the tip supposed to be on the inside or outside? I appear to have seen pics both ways!
                              To explain the rear cut out, in part it is to centre the boot with a lifted heel, though it is a much longer cut out that that would require. What it does is move the centre of the boot behind the outside centre of the ski, this makes the inside ski naturally turn more vigorously than the outer ski, so countering the tendency to stem and allowing easy pressure on the inner ski. It does take some getting used to, once you have you can really work the inner ski.

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