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Fritschi Xenic for TTS?

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  • jeff_er_why
    replied
    Thanks Jason! Looks like I'm going to have to pass for now but might get some for a future TTS setup. I couldn't get them mounted with boots close to center on my current setup (Ion toe 40x45). The Xenic holes would only be about 6.3mm (2mm in, 6mm back...look at me using the pathagorean theorem!) or maybe less for one set and more for others if the pin line isn't centered like Jason suggests.

    Still, I think this might be the real deal for TTS but I'll have to wait till another season to try it and be the guinea pig

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  • jasonq
    replied
    here is what skimo says:
    https://skimo.co/tech-binding-hole-patterns
    Fritschi Vipec / Tecton 43.5/39.5 x 65.5 28.5 x 60.5
    Fritschi Xenic 44 x 33 28.5 x 60.5
    heel is the same as vipec, but toe is different.

    no info on where pin line is relative to the pattern, but looking at the photos, i'd think the pin line is about 14-15mm behind the front screws

    they don't have the pin heights on their pin height page
    https://skimo.co/pin-heights

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff_er_why
    replied
    Originally posted by Dostie View Post
    Boot will come out in a forward pivot after it rotates 65 degrees. Can't say I've ever taken apart a Vipec toe, but it must have strong similarities.
    Yeah, the feature that releases the toe in case of a vertical heel release is definitely still a concern. I was more wondering about how the toe comes out when the heel releases laterally and the toe of the boot rotates to the side.


    Originally posted by Dostie View Post
    It has the same mounting pattern as Vipec or Tecton, just not the same footprint since there's no release, or the extra springs to adjust that.
    That's good to know, so 44mm apart side to side in the front toe screws and 40mm apart in the back toe screws.

    I'm still waiting to find out how far each is from the pin line (and thus how far the front and back toe screws are from one another). For the G3, it's 40mm apart side to side in both front and back, front are 25 from pin line and back are 20, making a 40x45 rectangle. My info is according to this drive folder I got from Slidewright https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...yYY6Gg2a3Dd245


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  • Dostie
    replied
    Originally posted by jeff_er_why View Post
    ... I know the toes on the Xenic toe isn't laterally releasable like the Tecton/Vipec. What I don't know is how does the boot come out of the toe when it has a lateral heel release? Is the mechanic different from a dynafit/G3 toe or one with a fulcrum?
    Boot will come out in a forward pivot after it rotates 65 degrees. Can't say I've ever taken apart a Vipec toe, but it must have strong similarities.



    Originally posted by jeff_er_why View Post
    I'm suspicious that the lateral elasticity might help reduce the toe pre-release with TTS since it would absorb some of the forces that otherwise contribute the the toe coming out. I found that softer boots help. I don't eject from F3s but did from my evo WCs on my TTS setup with Ion toes (even locked out). Like I said, I guess we might just have to try it.
    Good point. Being a guinea pig is faster than analysis. But we still need to wait a month or so, depending on your circle of friends.



    Originally posted by jeff_er_why View Post
    ...waiting to hear back from Skimo on the mounting pattern for the Xenic.
    It has the same mounting pattern as Vipec or Tecton, just not the same footprint since there's no release, or the extra springs to adjust that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff_er_why
    replied
    Love the photo, Jasonq! I hadn't seen your POLR DIY thread until just now when I googled it, looks like a great setup!

    Doste, that's right, I googled "POLR Binding" and the first hit was to Jasonq's thread. I guess backcountrytalk.com is occasionally searchable, even if the clickbait and SEO optimized BS usually comes up first.

    Back on topic, I know the toes on the Xenic toe isn't laterally releasable like the Tecton/Vipec. What I don't know is how does the boot come out of the toe when it has a lateral heel release. Is the mechanic different from a dynafit/G3 toe or one with a fulcrum?

    I'm suspicious that the lateral elasticity might help reduce the toe pre-release with TTS since it would absorb some of the forces that otherwise contribute the the toe coming out. I found that softer boots help. I don't eject from F3s but did from my evo WCs on my TTS setup with Ion toes (even locked out). Like I said, I guess we might just have to try it.

    I'm waiting to hear back from Skimo on the mounting pattern for the Xenic. If the toe can be mounted without getting too close to my G3 Ion holes and keep my F3s at boot center, I may give them a try. I can always put in inserts and go back to the Ion toe if they suck. Resale value would be good now too since they're fresh for this season.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dostie
    replied
    Xenic has the lateral elasticity of the Vipec or Tecton, but does NOT release when it hits the limit of its travel. So the toe won't open to release if configured with a cable on the real heel. It might release from the boot twisting to the side enough that it disengages from the pins, but the pins won't open up. In fact, it probably won't release. Not easily. But that's just analytical speculation. YMMV.

    Leave a comment:


  • jasonq
    replied
    one number 2, no enough info, but if one assumed it operated similar to a vipec, both wings move sideways in tandem to a point, then only the outside wing moves, which would lead to a release, then that would be bad. option 2 is that both wings always move in tandem, with a spring holding them together, and the outside hits a stop, which allows the inside to be wedged away. in that case, it wouldn't be too different than other pin toes. But i think there would end up being more free play, which would be bad. someone buy some and find out.

    jeff,
    for kicks, here is a cross section of my spring plunger on vertical toe on a raster from my POLR binding. Screw allowed for tension adjust, as well as by swapping out springs.

    You may only view thumbnails in this gallery. This gallery has 1 photos.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff_er_why
    replied
    Two other questions, building on Doste and jasonq's points.

    1. Toe release: would it auto-eject if you made too deep of a turn? Is that even possible given the limited spring lengths with TTS that route around the side? It seems like the best way is to try it. That means convincing an AT skier to let me add inserts for a tts block to test it...

    Here's what TelemarkPyrenees says: "All Fritschi bindings, including the Xenic 10, free the boot at an angle of about 65 degrees (this does depend on the boot model; for most boots this is 65 degrees). This is earlier than other bindings and offers higher safety. Many pin bindings release at 90 degrees and then you can imagine where your knees and head are."

    2. Toe lateral play/elasticity: will it compromise edge hold? It's considered an ideal feature in fixed heel, alpine bindings, maybe it would help for telemark? You can put more force into edging without digging the ski in to the snow too much? Not sure of the physics here but again, I think to know someone would have to try it. Have any other tele bindings had lateral play? Did the release plates?

    Fritschi and BD have a partnership, it'd be cool if BD could make a way to use their old O1 springs + xenic binding to have an AT/tele hybrid... oh wait. There still aren't boots (on the market) that make sense for that.

    Leave a comment:


  • jeff_er_why
    replied
    Originally posted by jasonq View Post
    first, i have never handled those bindings, but i did watch a youtube video, and read a couple webpages, so i am clearly an expert.
    haha, that's why I came here, like-minded 'experts' :-)

    Originally posted by jasonq View Post
    beyond that, if they did work, it would be awesome, and i could even imagine putting spring under the lock lever to sort of add some adjustbility in the break away feature of tech toes. i have tired this with dynafit toes, and it was surprising how little spring force up on the fork was required to go from easy to twist out to effectively locked. But with the side to side linear motion of this toe, maybe it is more controllable.
    Interesting idea, I wonder if that spring would have solved the issues I had with the Radical toe for TTS.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dostie
    replied
    Originally posted by chamonix View Post
    Some one send me a pair, and I will test them...as an AT binding.
    Dude! C'mon, the point is to test their viability for tele. We already know they work for AT.


    Leave a comment:


  • chamonix
    replied
    Some one send me a pair, and I will test them...as an AT binding. Telemark Pyrenees is selling them (with discount code) for 247 Euros.. no ski brakes. So add about 20 Euros for shipping to USA>

    https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/bi...ouring-binding

    Leave a comment:


  • Dostie
    replied
    Originally posted by bobbytooslow View Post
    Those toes look pretty nice. What interests me is the fact that the in/out motion of the arms doesn't appear to require a lever with a fulcrum, standing above the ski in front of the pin line. Could something like this be modified to work with a boot where the Dyna cups are moved 10-20mm aft on the sole, for increased touring efficiency?
    After looking at it more closely, I think the beauty of this toe is the basic lack of a fulcrum for the toes to open. They can slide laterally, but are not designed to open. Lateral release on the Xenic comes from the heel, like most pin bindings. How the lateral play will work with tele is just a guess at this point. Will the elasticity compromise the edge-hold early adopters to 2-pin tele bindings have come to appreciate?

    I DO like the simplicity of latching in. Sweet. And light. Revise my list above and move the Xenic up, I just don't know how far.

    Leave a comment:


  • bobbytooslow
    replied
    Those toes look pretty nice. What interests me is the fact that the in/out motion of the arms doesn't appear to require a lever with a fulcrum, standing above the ski in front of the pin line. Could something like this be modified to work with a boot where the Dyna cups are moved 10-20mm aft on the sole, for increased touring efficiency?

    Watching that video, though, really gives you an appreciation for all the factors that have to be accounted for to ensure a safe/reliable release. Really impressive engineering. Makes me glad to be a dumb telemarker, who can use simple toe pieces and keep them locked all the time (knocking on wood as I type this...).

    Leave a comment:


  • jasonq
    replied
    found this site, pretty sure i watched the video last spring. but the pic from the bottom of the binding is what is interesting here. looks like the entire frame is plastic, that is definitely and injection molded base for the toe.

    https://www.telemark-pyrenees.com/fr...t?currency=USD

    Leave a comment:


  • tele.skier
    replied
    Originally posted by jasonq View Post
    first, i have never handled those bindings, but i did watch a youtube video, and read a couple webpages, so i am clearly an expert.

    Ha! awesome..

    Leave a comment:

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