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Intuition Pro-Tour liners, Who Has Tried These?

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  • Intuition Pro-Tour liners, Who Has Tried These?

    Am considering getting some Intuition Pro-Tour liners for my new TX Comps, and am wondering who here might have tried these. Seems like Quad once had something to say about them, and maybe others. Would be especially interested in how they may work in TX-Comps or TX-Pros, which fit much the same. At Intuition they mention that some tele skiers have had problems with the thickness of the attachment points of the replaceable tongues causing too much pressure on toes for some when flexing the shell. I need to fill some space around my skinny feet and would like a lace up liner to prevent possible blisters from foot movement in the liners when touring. Might be difficult to add lacing loops to the stock liners, though it may be possible. I may get more incentive for this kind of work when the season seems closer.

    I could search for this information on the site, but cannot figure out how to do it with this new format.
    Last edited by Dostie; 9 January 2020, 09:27 PM.

  • #2
    I have some Pro Tour liners and indeed there might be a problem for some re the thickness of the tongue as it is right over the bellows. For me it was a problem with my tele boots so I didn't used these in them. I did use them in my AT touring boots with OK results but mostly disappointed with the design and fit in the forefoot. Anyway, my advise would be to not give up on the stock liners but pad them to fit your feet. If that won't work then, I think for a mostly resort skiing and in a big boot like the Comps, I would get a pair of Intuition Luxury liners with the "high volume fit" and have them molded by a pro. These won't have the touring baffles in the rear but a step up in stiffness over stock liners and thicker for a better chance to reduce boot volume for a snug fit. IMO
    "Just say no to groomed snow"

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    • #3
      Don't think you need lace up liners if you have good boot buckles. In fact, when skinning with boot wide open and no laces...no blisters. Nice liners...should last a couple years.

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      • #4
        Aren't the stock Tx Comp liners (Scarpa Intuition Speed Pro G) very, very similar to the Intuition Pro Tour liners?

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        • #5
          I put Intuition Power Wrap in my Comps and couldn't be happier. Comfortable, easy on and off, nice uniform flex.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by dschane View Post
            Aren't the stock Tx Comp liners (Scarpa Intuition Speed Pro G) very, very similar to the Intuition Pro Tour liners?
            Can anyone confirm if the Pro Tour is similar to the Speed Pro G? The Speed Pro G isn't listed on the Scarpa or Intuition website... I couldn't find a replacement for my Tx liner so i have been using the TxPro liner in the Tx (which actually seems to fit the heel of the boot better than the original Tx liner) but swapping wet liners out has been kind of gnarly

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            • #7
              I missed this thread during the summer, but probably better as I finally got around to molding and using my Luxury liners a few weeks ago. Thought I'd weigh in with a few comments based on my experience for those thinking of liners.

              The Luxury liners are firm. This is why I got them as it was suggested they could help stiffen up the TXPros somewhat. I think that is true, but only to a certain degree. That said, I don't think I'd want to use these touring - at least now while they are new. The toe box area is the most flexible and works fine in a tele boot. The rest of the foot area is a more solid foam, and the upper is very solid. Because they are firm, they are harder to get in and out of your boots. I usually pull my liners to dry after every ski day. Don't think I will be doing that as often with these.

              Laces: you can see in the image on the website that these have laces. I find them super annoying. Long and a pain to tuck away. But I also feel like they are necessary to get the liner to snug up properly. I might try them without the laces tied up and see how it goes - the liners look to have the same tongue configuration as my stock TX Pro liners, which do not have laces. But I think I did that while I was trying them on before I cooked them and they needed the laces tightened.

              Volume: Intuition offers low, medium and high volume liners. I was advised to get the high volume and I see it is mentioned above. Intuition has a guideline to determine which volume you need. Using the guideline, I should get a low volume. But I didn't want that because I was trying to ensure a tight fit. So I went med. They are CRAZY tight!

              Molding: It is advised above to take them to a pro. I agree. Intuition now suggests putting rice in a sock and heating it in the microwave to heat your liners at home. I have not had good luck with this - too hard to get the rice deep in the boot, and the boots stink like rice for too long (previous liners). I didn't want to bring mine to my local shop for reasons I won't get into, but I've cooked many liners in the past and was confident in doing it myself in the oven. But... I chickened out and removed them from the oven a little early and I don't think I got full expansion/compression. The fit is nearly perfect and I can certainly live with it, but I am sure it could be better. But not so sure that I want to remold quite yet. Bottom line - go to the pros with the right heaters (they now have blowers instead of ovens too, but they should know the required time and temp to heat).

              Finally, it's probably worth calling Intuition for suggestions. After all, they are the ones who invented each model of their liners.

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              • #8
                Hindfoot,

                General boot fitting suggestions. Skinny feet more than less suggests you want a power wrap liner, not a Pro Tour. The Pro Tour has a zone of softer foam mid-way up the Achilles to allow the cuff of the liner to bend back easier when touring. However, skinny (narrow) feet generally have a low instep and are thus, low-volume. You need to fill volume. The Power-Wrap is the best tool to fill volume which will be the best way to minimize movement of your foot while touring. You might need some other modifications (extra padding in strategic places) to prevent excess movement and improve ski performance. Find a good boot fitter near you. A great one is better, but greatness is in the foot of the beholder.

                PS: I agree, the search function for vBulletin is lame.

                ain't no turn like tele!

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by QuentonCassidy View Post

                  Can anyone confirm if the Pro Tour is similar to the Speed Pro G? The Speed Pro G isn't listed on the Scarpa or Intuition website... I couldn't find a replacement for my Tx liner so i have been using the TxPro liner in the Tx (which actually seems to fit the heel of the boot better than the original Tx liner) but swapping wet liners out has been kind of gnarly
                  What size are you? Deal on eBay:

                  https://www.ebay.com/itm/Scarpa-Intu...0/283731281623

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Dostie View Post
                    Hindfoot,

                    General boot fitting suggestions. Skinny feet more than less suggests you want a power wrap liner, not a Pro Tour. The Pro Tour has a zone of softer foam mid-way up the Achilles to allow the cuff of the liner to bend back easier when touring. However, skinny (narrow) feet generally have a low instep and are thus, low-volume. You need to fill volume. The Power-Wrap is the best tool to fill volume which will be the best way to minimize movement of your foot while touring. You might need some other modifications (extra padding in strategic places) to prevent excess movement and improve ski performance. Find a good boot fitter near you. A great one is better, but greatness is in the foot of the beholder.

                    PS: I agree, the search function for vBulletin is lame.
                    The Intuition Pro Tour liner is now available in a High Volume (HV) option for skinny feet and ankles like mine, but it still has the ankle flex zones for touring. The Pro Tour can also be ordered with 3 different tongue options Standard, Stiff, and Thick. The Pro Tour HV with the Thick Tongue was what I was skiing on yesterday at the local resort in a pair of Scarpa TX boots, I also use the same boots for touring when I can get out. The HV Pro Tour liner with the Thick tongue is a much better option for touring than the Wrap liners for those of us with skinny ankles and feet as the Wrap style liners have to used quite loose to get any ankle flex while touring. Because the Pro Tour has the replaceable tongue option there is a thick area where the tongue attaches with velcro, I notice this when I first put on the boots as a light pressure but it goes away quickly while skiing and I have never had a problem skiing with it.

                    I would not recommend the Pro Tour for a boot like the TX Comp though, why get a soft liner with a hinged flex zone for a boot where the cuff really hardly flexes at all? My main ski area boot is a pair of TX Pros with the HV Luxury liner, as jnicol states above the Luxury liner is a very firm stiff liner that would be a great fit for the Comp it, just as long as you don't plan on doing much touring with it. I feel that the Luxury liner really firmed up the Scarpa TX Pro quite a bit and is also a really durable liner as I have been using mine for over 5 years now with virtually no packing out at all.
                    Last edited by Gunks Ray; 10 January 2020, 09:52 AM.

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                    • #11
                      By going to Intuitions website I just found out the they are now making a tour model of the Wrap liner with flex zones and laces https://intuitionliners.com/shop/tour-wrap/ unfortunately it is not available in an HV or high volume option at this time.

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                      • #12
                        Thank you to all that have responded to this thread. There's much good information here that would have been of use to me a couple of months ago when I was deciding how to fill the excess volume of my new last season, 2019 TX Comps from the Fey bros. The Intuition rep was very helpful in providing useful information for my decision. Her first suggestion was to get the Luxury liner in the medium volume. I asked about the Pro-Tour liner and she mentioned that quite a few tele skiers have had bellows pinch problems with the thickened area over the toes where the replaceable tongue attaches. Quad said he'd also had this problem, so as Gunks Ray just suggested, it also seemed illogical to me to get a touring-specific liner in a stiff-ish boot, which after skiing several days last season actually felt to be breaking in well and not over stiff. I could have ordered both to try, and returned one pre-cooking, but thought the bellows pressure on this thick area in the Pro Tours might develop into a big problem after cooking, and without a good solution or one I wanted to mess with.

                        My main focus in getting a new liner was to avoid the perpetual boot fitting project I had with my first and previous tele boots for 8 seasons, Garmont VooDoo 75mm size 29, which have way too much volume in that size but no toe room in the 28 which the shop heat fitted for me first and let me try for part of a toe banging very painful ski day, so they fitted me into the 29s. Never should have bought those damned things, but was a total tele noob and had been learning in some hand-me-down Garmont Veloces two shell sizes too big. After professional heat fitting by the selling shop I spent lots of time doing my own boot fitting on these VooDoos, building my own custom orthotics from some Downunder foot beds and adding boot fitting foam in helpful spots on the liners, then spent what could have bought new Intuition liners, having at Craig's recommendation Mark Elling at Bachelor work on them for two long sessions. He complimented me highly on all my work on my orthotics and those liners and and went on to fill lots more space, which increased control greatly, but still for years a chunk of every ski day was wasted in my car, and even in the B.C. with firm foam and Barge cement trying to alleviate specific pain points so I could get back on the snow. After skiing my new Comps last season for only a few days I knew the excess volume problem was back, but not nearly in the degree it was with the VooDoos, but it needed to be fixed. In hopes of finally avoiding this perpetual fit fixing project, decided to give myself new liners for a Christmas present.

                        Being as thorough as possible in my liner choice I asked the Intuition rep how thick the foam is on the Luxury and Pro-Tour liners in both Medium and High Volume models. She gave me thicknesses for different zones of both Medium Volume liners and said the HV liners were about 2mm thicker in all zones, except in the toe boxes where they are the same as the MV liners. Using these thicknesses for the different sections of those liners I measured the corresponding thicknesses of the stock Intuition liners in my Comps and found these to be mostly the same as for the MV Luxury liners and actually a bit thicker than some of those of the MV Pro Tours. In the end it seemed clear that the HV Luxury liners were going to better fill the space needing filled and the rep agreed, so ordered them. Once I got them I checked to see if they fit in my shells and if my feet could still fit into them. This all was not easy but worked OK. Though they were very snug all over my feet except the toes, by leaving them on and walking around for a half hour or so they seemed quite a bit less over-tight, so went ahead with the cooking.

                        In search of better fitting 75mm boots several seasons ago, I bought some used T-1s from a member here and found they fit well my skinny feet, heels and ankles, but were too narrow in the toes for my spread out forefeet. So ended up cooking those stock Intuition liners several times with some painfully thick toe caps I made, yet still did not create the toe room I needed, due to the fit of the shells. I'd wanted to use Intuition's rice in sock liner cooking method, but without a microwave, this would not work, so came up with my own version of this, which Tom at Intuition thought ought to work fine. Instead of rice in a sock I heat lentils, which due to their shape nestle together densly, are slippery and flow well, both into and out of the liners, no sock. I heat these on a special oven pan I made from a sheet of aluminum, with 2" high sides and formed into a spout at one end for pouring hot lentils into liners. Only unknown was the temperature to which to heat the lentils. Tom suggested starting at something like 260F. with the same in-liner times as the rice/sock method. I used a remote in-the-food probe thermometer to get accurate lentil temps. This worked pretty well on the T-1s, but in quest of more toe room repeated this two more times at increasing temps, up to 280F. with still no overheating of the foam, which did soften enough to form to the internal shell contours, but still did not seem too floppy soft at all when hot. They still pinched my toes, so back to the damned VooDoos.

                        So after using my lentil method to cook the stock liners of my new Comps last Winter, I went ahead and used it on my new HV Luxury liners, over which I very conservatively buckled the shells when fitting, not wanting to over-compress them. After this first heat fitting they seemed very comfortable and skiing them gave me a huge increase in precise control over the stock liners. However, because they were intentionally not much compressed, all that uncompressed foam still seemed to apply enough pressure to my feet to cause them to begin to feel like a loss of circulation was causing symptoms of feet asleep and numbness. Skied them two days like this recently, and also swapped back in the stock liners for one run and confirmed how much better the control was with the new liners, so put them back in for the rest of that last day. A few days ago I re-cooked the Luxury liners at a slightly higher temp and buckled them down more tightly, similar to the settings I use when skiing, and they now feel better, yet have not yet had a chance to ski them and will ASAP, but which always takes lots of trip planning with the diminishing availability of snow and long drives to lift areas and reliable snow. Local B.C. snow is all but extinct here for the past few seasons.
                        Last edited by Hindfoot; 12 January 2020, 01:32 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Great info Hindfoot!
                          Wow, what a project this has been for you!

                          I find I have too much room in the toe box of my MV Luxury liners. I think it's due to the big toe cap you are supposed to use when molding. IIRC, at one point I was of the opinion that tele skiers should not use that cap, because we need to use our toes to ski more than alpine skiers. I'm not sure if that is accurate, but my new liners are super tight everywhere except the toes, and while I feel like I have excellent control, now that I am getting more used to them (and getting over the pain) I feel like I don't want them so loose in the toe box.

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                          • #14
                            Thanks, jnicol!
                            Yep, everything involved with my tele skiing tends to become a project. A friend calls it making a project out of a project. Likely that's due partly to the nature of tele in its current state...no hard and fast answers, lots of widely differing opinions, lots of innovation going on, and it's all really interesting to investigate. Guess I also have to figure out and verify everything for myself since I don't have the long history with tele that most everyone else here does. Alpine skiing since age 10; tele less than 10 years. The fact that Winters are getting shorter and warmer here is diminishing my local BC possibilities with our long-used, local, accessible 5,000' hump of very limited area getting ever less snow and more rain, and what short-lived heavy snow there is is commonly difficult BC skiing at best, unskiable often. This necessitates overnight trips to areas 4-5 hours drive each way. When I was younger we used to always drive there and back for a full day of lift served alpine. Long days.

                            The Intuition rep said the toe box areas of the MV and HV liners are both 8mm and and my stock Intuition liners measured the same in the toe box. This 8mm foam is much thinner than all other parts of the rest of the liner. I did use the rubber toe cap Intuition sends with the fit kit on both "bean bake" fittings of my HV liners and thought it fairly modest in thickness compared to my previous self-made toe caps where I was trying for increased toe space. I'm just glad to have ample toe room...will have to see if that gives my toes too little grip on the boots, never noticed this aspect, only when they had too little room... very noticeable then.

                            Since you're able to ski them as is but they're tight, seems you might want to try heat fitting them at a reduced temperature, without using the toe caps. You can always easily spot-heat and refit just the liner toes if you end up needing more room, or if you want to skip heat fitting the whole liners and just spot heat the toes, which should allow the toe box foam to recover a bit, if you heat fitted them with the toe cap already...if you want the toe area more snug.

                            You mention how hard it is to get the liners into the shells. This was especially true in my case with the HV liners. But even the stock liners were kind of hard to get shoved in. Both types always got hung up when the seam around bottom of the liner heel hit the internal shell structure which surrounds the heel and is separate from the main body of the shell...even in ski mode when it's somewhat retracted. Because of this difficulty with Scarpa boots, but also with my Garmonts, I've started putting the liner on my foot then stepping it into the open shell, always making sure the shell is in ski mode so that protruding plastic heel surround does not get damaged as I force the liner past the hangup. More recently, with these new Comps and the new HV liners, I found a sheet of stiff but flexible 1mm thick HDPE that I trimmed to about 25cm X 35cm. I bend this and put it into the back of the shell like a big shoe horn which completely covers that internal shell structure, then just step in with liner on foot. The stiff plastic Heel Guide sheet protects that heel surround structure in the shell and my foot in liner slides right in, then pull out the Heel Guide sheet. When removing my boots I usually just sit down and grab the top of the back of the shell and push it down and away from my ankle while pulling up on the strap on the liner back so liner stays on my foot. Having rubbed a small amount of silicone spray on a rag onto strategic parts of shell and liner really makes this work smoothly. I also spray silicone spray on the inside surface of the Heel Guide sheet, let it dry and wipe off excess. If I want to put the empty liners in the shells to conserve storage space or for easier carrying, the plastic Heel Guide sheet makes shoving them in very easy.
                            Last edited by Hindfoot; 11 January 2020, 05:13 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Hindfoot View Post

                              Since you're able to ski them as is but they're tight, seems you might want to try heat fitting them at a reduced temperature, without using the toe caps. You can always easily spot-heat and refit just the liner toes if you end up needing more room, or if you want to skip heat fitting the whole liners and just spot heat the toes, which should allow the toe box foam to recover a bit, if you heat fitted them with the toe cap already...if you want the toe area more snug.
                              How would you recommend spot heating them?

                              I'm in a situation where the liners are nearly perfect, so I don't want to mess them up. The only 'issue' I have is on the outside edge of the middle of my right foot: it's a bit narrow there and forces me to open my buckles periodically. At the end of the ski day, my foot is sore there. But I think it will work in. I'm on my 4th day on the liners and I can leave my left foot buckled for most of the day. So I'd like to sort this out on my right foot instead of waiting for it to break in, but don't want to adjust any other parts of the fit - save the toes, I really would like them tighter, but since these liners are in my small shells (I have another pair that are the size up), I also have to be careful not to overdo it.

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