quiver killers and thinner skis (like Madshus Annum) questions

[wfinley]

Just bought a pair of Madshus Annum and am thinking of installing quiver killers so I can mount both dynafits and silvrettas.

Anyone here had success in installing quiver killers in skis like the Annums or something similar? Are they beefy enough to withstand the inserts or will I just rip them out the first time I try to do a jump turn in climbing boots with an expedition pack and sled?

[maples]

I've installed inserts in a pair of Madshus Epoch 2yrs ago, been ok so far. 200lb skier, 3pin hardwire/T2 boots.

[cesare]

I don't think Annums are too thin or weak to support inserts. In fact, even if they were very weak, inserts would provide a more secure mount than a binding screw. I have a pair of skis that are prototypes with a ponderosa pine core. There are not a lot of woods that are softer than ponderosa, so the guy who made them built them with inserts. They provide as solid an attachment as I have ever had in a ski.

[wfinley]

Thanks all!

[Big Steve]

inserts would provide a more secure mount than a binding screw

Gotta disagree with this. Just can't see how machine screw threads in a wood core could be more secure than wood screw threads in a wood core (all other things being equal). My informal pullout tests confirm this. If you want a bomber connection, use ski heli-coils: http://www.slidewright.com/svst-heli...insert-kit.php

[bergbryce]

I used inserts to mount Silvrettas and Tele Bulldogs on my Guides. You gotta remember those Billy!

I haven't switched between bindings too many times, but have toured and skied many days in tele mode with no apparent issues, aside from one botched insert which was installers error. I think it works fine.

[airinwrite]

I don't think Annums are too thin or weak to support inserts. In fact, even if they were very weak, inserts would provide a more secure mount than a binding screw. I have a pair of skis that are prototypes with a ponderosa pine core. There are not a lot of woods that are softer than ponderosa, so the guy who made them built them with inserts. They provide as solid an attachment as I have ever had in a ski.

I bet they are made with t-nuts like a snowboard, in which case they would be more solid. If QK/BF type inserts I don't think so.

[wfinley]

I used inserts to mount Silvrettas and Tele Bulldogs on my Guides. You gotta remember those Billy!

I remember! When did you install the inserts? After your initial Silvretta mount?

[bergbryce]

I intially had the Silvrettas installed with inserts because i knew i would want to add a tele binding later. So that trip I used them on was on inserts. If you put them in right, they are pretty damn solid.

[dschane]

I don't have the aptitude or time (or care enough) to conduct my own tests, but Quiverkiller claims:

"What is the pull-out strength of a Quiver Killer?
This has been independently tested: regular binding screw = 280 kg force, Quiver Killer = 400 kg force!"

Gotta disagree with this. Just can't see how machine screw threads in a wood core could be more secure than wood screw threads in a wood core (all other things being equal). My informal pullout tests confirm this. If you want a bomber connection, use ski heli-coils: http://www.slidewright.com/svst-heli...insert-kit.php

[wfinley]

I intially had the Silvrettas installed with inserts because i knew i would want to add a tele binding later. So that trip I used them on was on inserts. If you put them in right, they are pretty damn solid.

Excellent. If they survived that pounding they will survive anything.

[Big Steve]

Note that the claim is made by QK, not by the the designer (who owns Binding Freedom), who I highly doubt would make such a claim. BF and QK inserts are machine screw thread, a profile designed for metal, not wood. FWIW, there are reports of pullouts. By contrast, ski helicoils have been used for years, never heard of a pullout with them. The thread profile cross section is way way bigger and thread profile much more aggressive (true aggressive wood screw profile) than BF/QK. If one requires real time proof, try mounting screw, BF/QK and ski helicoil on an old ski and a pullout test with a claw hammer or crowbar. Be sure to tap for the screw. See Zeno's pullout tests re that issue.

ETA: BF inserts (IMO better than QK) have their place if they are properly mounted, although I'd avoid using them for high pullout force applications, e.g., BD O1 rear screws (where ski helicoils is the way to go IMO)