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NTN non-release and broken ankle

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  • NTN non-release and broken ankle

    Snagged a log skiing in some trees this weekend. TxPro/Freedom setup. Minor ankle break, hopefully skiing again in 4 weeks. I didn't buy NTN for releasability and not surprised that I didn't come out. But it occurs to me that the slop in my old G3 was so much greater that the twist in in binding might have absorbed some of the stress that ended up on the lateral malleolus. As tele gear gets more burly I wonder if lack of true DIN release will result in more injuries?

  • #2
    I don't think you'll ever know. All evidence is anecdotes and nobody is doing any real studies on it. You were prob just unlucky where others may have had the same issue on a set of Freedoms and no injury occurred. Heal quick regardless.
    Drive the cuff!

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    • #3
      People break their ankles all the time in DIN Alpine bindings, it very common. Happened to two friends this season.

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      • #4
        At least a nod to the superior performance of NTN when compared to Targa?

        DIN is such a convoluted collection of standards when it comes to ski bindings I wouldn't worry about NTN not being DIN. Marker AT bindings are not even DIN anymore because the EPF mounting pattern is wider than DIN specifications. NTN was not really designed as a release binding. The release was something that was figured out after the basic design of the binding was established. I wouldn't thin of it as a calibrated release but more like an avalanche might rip your ski off while tearing your acl or breaking your ankle in the process. Most tele skiers ski on bindings that will not release so I am skeptical that bindings like NTN are going to change the injury rate in any significant measure.

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        • #5
          Just wondering out loud since a comparison is being made:

          do skiers that use less active bindings have a better chance of not getting hurt in incidents like this?

          Less activity = more slop.

          Probably not but since the snow isn't falling here, wth - might as well have something to converse about.
          Drive the cuff!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by SoMuchBetterThanU View Post
            Probably not but since the snow isn't falling here, wth - might as well have something to converse about.
            And that's the topic you came up with? Good grief.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by SoMuchBetterThanU View Post
              Just wondering out loud since a comparison is being made: do skiers that use less active bindings have a better chance of not getting hurt in incidents like this?Less activity = more slop.Probably not but since the snow isn't falling here, wth - might as well have something to converse about.
              And what about leather vs platic boots ?

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              • #8
                I put a ski under a log with my Freerides and released- was really glad as I'm sure a serious injury would have resulted. Sorry it did not release for you- I must have hit not quite square to the log, which allowed the boot to twist out.
                Last edited by Tele 'til You're Smelly; 6 January 2014, 02:27 PM.
                Reluctant enthusiast, part-time crusader, half-hearted fanatic

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                • #9
                  1)Leverage is a 2 way street. Very Active bindings and tall, stiff boots allow you to apply greater force to your skis, and also allow your skis to apply greater force to YOU....

                  2)The weakest link in any chain of force is the link that breaks first.

                  NO doubt that ALL bindings have angles at which their release function performs best. Add a little bit of twisting or angularity to any skier's fall and the percieved DIN will be effected. This is especially true for NTN where the release value would be significantly greater by having the boot flexed when twisting occurs. It should be kind of obvious that NTN applies variable tension to the boot and therefore the release tension is also,..... Variable....

                  I hooked a tip when landing a huck in deep pow on NTN freerides. I flew through the air like superman when the tip burried and my ankle twisted until I thought it would break. I heard a loud click and the binding released me. I considered myself lucky, but I also had a sprained ankle that didn't go away completely for an entire YEAR...

                  Anything you can do to make the binding's release function into "the weakest link" potentially saves your body from being that. For a while I was smearing a little grease on my NTN claw to reduce friction and make the boot more likely to release. I also filed any gouges on the duckbutt of my boots so they are smooth for the same reason.

                  When I skied leather boots, the worst thing I ever got was a purple toe from the ski twisting the boot so hard it pinched the hell out of my toe. No doubt that leather and pins aren't able to generate a lot of force... and are less likely to produce a broken leg...
                  Last edited by tele.skier; 6 January 2014, 01:26 PM.
                  the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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                  • #10
                    I broke my ankle 2 years ago using Scarpa TX boots and NTN Freerides with green cartridges when they didn't release in heavy wet new snow under a few inches of dense cold wind packed powder with no base. Pretty miserable conditions, I was just about the only skier out still trying to ski as everybody else had given up already. As I had used either Voile CRB or 7TM release bindings before NTN I'm pretty positive that I would have released from either of them with no problem or injury. I was out 8 weeks and didn't really start skiing as well as I had before the injury until the middle of the next year.

                    My wife who had never skied any binding with release before going NTN took a bad fall on a real hard steep bump run and had a nice clean release without even knowing it. Never felt the ski come off until she stopped bouncing and noticed it wasn't there.

                    A pretty hard core ski buddy who repeatedly knocked off ultra marathons on x-country gear and climbed 8000 meter peaks took a fall on light classic racing gear (pretty much the softest most flexible ski gear there is) on an easy x-country trail at a park in new Jersey and tore 3 major ligaments in his knee, he never fully recovered, **** happens.

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                    • #11
                      Thats a bummer Paul. The same thing happened to me a few years ago and I thought that if I had fatter skis I would have gone over the top of that damn stump. Anyway, if you will be skiing in 4 weeks you must be a lot younger than me. Good luck.

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                      • #12
                        Sorry for your injury Paul.
                        I ski Freerides, and Freedoms a lot. A few weeks ago I had a release in my Freedoms in powder (well Eastern powder, maybe 8 inches) when I fell on my side. I was moving slowly and settled into the snow, when I realized one ski had come off. No knee pain, or pressure on my foot. No sensation, the ski was just gone. But my heel was down on the ski, I think before the binding released.
                        Ironically I feel safer on my NTN bindings now, than my Dynafit setups for skiing fast. I have had a few carving-on-hard-chattery-snow sudden releases on the Dynafit Verticals at the resort. And I studied all the Lou Dawson notes on setting them up properly. So when I ski fast and hit some ice, I worry more about a pre-release with the Dynafit, which should be a "safer" binding.
                        I have also been in the backcountry, with the Verticals, skied under a tree trunk; with no release. Luckliy I was moving slowly, and the high front of the Radiums took the blow. Still hurt at the time, my foot/ski were really pinned under the log.
                        Last edited by chamonix; 6 January 2014, 04:08 PM.

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                        • #13
                          Sorry to hear about your injury. Hope you heal quickly!

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                          • #14
                            Wishing you quick and complete healing Paul. Bones will knit together in weeks but expect the soft tissue and joint healing to take some time. I broke my ankle April 10 and skiing OK now but find x-c skiing not so good yet. Once you are out of the cast or if you have a removable try castor bean oil compress. Soak a cloth in the oil, apply to the ankle, wrap in plastic and sandwich it in hot water bottles. This seems to promote the connective tissue healing a lot.

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                            • #15
                              PS. I went from 7TM to TTS last season. Pretty sure the heavy clunky 7TMs would have let go in the same situation.

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