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Ski recommendation for 22 designs Outlaw - thoughts on Liberty Origin 96?

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  • Ski recommendation for 22 designs Outlaw - thoughts on Liberty Origin 96?

    Hey All,

    I recently switched to an NTN setup with a 22designs Outlaw mounted to a Dynastar Cham 97 2.0. I loved the feel of the binding and NTN (I have skied 75mm tele exclusively for the past 20 years.) Long story short, I was (am) really disappointed with the Cham when it snapped on my 5th day riding them! This happened under completely normal circumstances--just aggressively skiing big steep bumps. The ski cracked horizontally across right in front of the front-most mount point of the binding. The local shop here in Portland told me that they also recently saw another Cham mounted with an Axl that broke at the exact same point. I'm a little gun-shy to ride the Chams again, although Dynastar is honoring the warranty.

    After a bit of looking around, I've honed in on the Liberty Origin 96 as a replacement. Does anyone have experience with this ski specifically mounted with the Outlaw? I'm also open for suggestions on a good ride that can withstand the pressures of this binding, with a preference toward an all-mountain ski in the 100mm range. I prefer some camber, and am not accustomed to a ton of rocker.

    Thanks for weighing-in!

  • #2
    I have Outlaws mounted on last years 177 cm Volkl Mantras; 100 mm waist for a resort and sidecountry ski. This is a full rocker , ski with metal, very damp in the bumps.. Admittedly a heavy setup, but they ski great , at my resort, Jay Peak, with my Comps. . I am skiing them without the ski brakes. I like the binding a lot; when I went back on my Freedoms, on another pair of skis (185 Cochise) yesterday, I felt like the Freedoms were throwing me into the backseat a bit. The Outlaws have a more natural ramp angle for me.
    Volkl Mantra review here; mine are 2015-2016 ski
    http://blistergearreview.com/gear-re...volkl-mantra-2

    I just had a second pair of Outlaws mounted on some 95 waist Atomic Backland skis. I even played with the Meidjo 2.0 binding today; very impressive and light, but I like to ski in my TX Comps, which don't have any inserts. So I chose the Outlaw again, no ski brakes. I will send a report on the Backlands in a few days.
    Last edited by chamonix; 7 February 2017, 08:27 PM.

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    • #3
      Cham - good to see you try the Meidjo. I've got a little more than 50 days on Meidjo V2.0 between last season and this season with no problems. For someone like you who skis resort and side country tele there is no reason not to ski Meidjo, unless you just like another binding better. I've got brakes on one pair and at this point I wish I had brakes on both pairs I own as I have no issues stepping in with brakes. No disrespect to the Outlaw, I've seen a number of them recently and they look solid, just haven't skied it yet and I was formerly a HH user. With all your gear what's another set of boots, skis and bindings? I just skied the Fritschi Diamir Vipec 12, super easy to get into, and changing modes from skiing to touring and back is a piece of cake. My dabbling with AT is becoming more frequent as I am becoming a low tech nut, pins on my tele gear and now fooling around with pins/ AT. Apologies for thread drift.
      Last edited by SPQR; 7 February 2017, 10:17 PM.

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      • #4
        Floodster: Atomic Backland 102 is a ski I just bought but haven't mounted yet (waiting to finalized my binding setup - drilling test holes in another ski). So, a bit of a weak suggestion since I haven't skied it and don't have Outlaws, but check 'em out.

        Cham: I see those Mantras everywhere. And I always think 'Hey, Cham has a pair of those". They do 'look' heavy.

        ...And I fully agree with SPQR: the Meidjo has your name on it, Cham. They are a really good resort binding. If I had started with Meidjo this season, I probably would have bought a second pair. The key issue I have had is with snow buildup. This year has been cold smoke supreme. Not likely to bother my Meidjo. Still some finicky issues for the backcountry, so mount them for the resort and enjoy the step-in, outstanding control and smooth flex.

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        • #5
          SPQR wrote
          Cham - good to see you try the Meidjo.
          I didn't get to ski or buy them, I just held a pair at the local ski shop. In the end I bought another pair of Outlaws. I like to ski in my stiff TX Comps, but sadly they don't have Dynafit inserts in the toe. Otherwise I probably would have bought the Meidjo..Like you I am dabbling in AT world, aka "The Dark Side". My touring setup of choice now is Carbon Converts and TLT Speed Turn bindings (1800 gms) . With a 1400 gm AT boot, La Sportiva Spectres.

          ps. If I lived out West in "cold smoke supreme" snow, I would probably buy the Meidjo and get back on my TX Pros, which have a full set of inserts. But after skiing the TX Comp, the Pro feels soft.
          Last edited by chamonix; 8 February 2017, 07:01 AM.

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          • #6
            Cham right now it's raining on our cold smoke powder, argh....

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            • #7
              Well, we got rain too; overnight here in the East. About to go back into the deep freeze, but it was 44 F this morning.
              Time to sharpen the edges on the Mantras "Dust on crust" for a while .
              Last edited by chamonix; 8 February 2017, 11:12 AM.

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              • #8
                I would think about contacting Dynastar re: warranty service.

                Back in the Pleistocene, I broke a Dynastar Fat Molly (in unlikely-seeming fashion, like you). I called 'em and they were cheerful/helpful about it. And while they did not replace it outright (it was out of production so they couldn't, though not sure if they would've anyhow), they gave me a screaming deal on whatever current (at the time) Dynastar ski I chose. So I got 4x4 Bigs for under $200 (IIRC). Which turned out to be a way, way better ski in every way.

                Worth a shot in any case.
                Last edited by skizix; 8 February 2017, 11:45 AM.

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                • #9
                  And, FWIW, I personally wouldn't try to match a ski with a binding. I would try to match the ski with the conditions I plan to use it in.

                  That being said, I have heard only good things about Liberty, and I know there are a few big fans of the Helix on this forum. But I haven't tried either.

                  I will give a plug for ON3P -- first season on them, and I'd say check out the Wren 98 -- it's a fun, stable, easy to ride ski.

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                  • #10
                    I have the Freerides mounted on a pair of K2 Annex 98. They may have discontinued them, even though I bought them new last year. Most favorite resort ski I have ever owned. Even though it's not really a powder ski, I've had some wonderful days with knee deep pow. They also eat up crud and chopped up powder. If it's a groomer day, it's the only ski I think about. I also have Outlaws mounted on an older pair of K2 Sidestash's, 108 underfoot. They are my go to powder ski and backcountry ski, but they are also great crudbusters. Sorry to hear about the Cham's, I've heard they're a nice ski.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by floodster View Post
                      I recently switched to an NTN setup with a 22designs Outlaw mounted to a Dynastar Cham 97 2.0. I loved the feel of the binding and NTN (I have skied 75mm tele exclusively for the past 20 years.) Long story short, I was (am) really disappointed with the Cham when it snapped on my 5th day riding them! This happened under completely normal circumstances--just aggressively skiing big steep bumps.
                      After a bit of looking around, I've honed in on the Liberty Origin 96 as a replacement. Does anyone have experience with this ski specifically mounted with the Outlaw? I'm also open for suggestions on a good ride that can withstand the pressures of this binding, with a preference toward an all-mountain ski in the 100mm range. I prefer some camber, and am not accustomed to a ton of rocker.

                      Thanks for weighing-in!
                      If you are considering the Liberty Origin 96, might I recommend the Liberty Helix at 105 underfoot, esp. if you are in Portland, OR as opposed to Maine. If the latter, the 96's are probably a good choice. But if the former, you should strongly consider the Helix for predominantly lift-served tele in the Pac NW. I have had these skis for about 5 seasons now, and they have become my go to no matter what the conditions. They really shine in fresh snow given their dimensions and early rise; they do have a small amount of camber underfoot. They also rock in warm spring conditions and soft bumps. I would say they are a little squirrely on groomed hard pack, but they hold their own on seriously wind buffed crust. I noted that Telemarkdown has a fairly recent version of the Helix for a great price. I also saw that Liberty appears to have discontinued the Helix, at least based on its absence on their web page. I have the 22D vice bindings on mine and use the somewhat older 4-buckle Garmont Energ boots, so not NTN obviously. I went with the Helix after reading numerous reviews from NW skiers who praised the merits of this board in the typical cut up mank snow we see so much of out here and have been very pleased on this decision.

                      Edit to add: Looks telemarkdown has a good price on the 106 origin as well, so this makes for a tougher call. have fun and good luck with the decision process!

                      Cheers,
                      JT
                      Last edited by Rock_Doc; 8 February 2017, 08:23 PM.

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                      • #12
                        My friend has just bust his Chams mounted with Miedjos. Sounds like there are some duff Chams out there.

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                        • #13
                          Some Outlaw pics today. I had this pair of Atomic Backlands, I hadn't mounted yet. With three pairs of ski set up AT I really didn't want another AT setup, so I mounted them with Outlaws..
                          But I can always pull the Outlaws off the Atomics, and mount Meidjos later. I switched skis back and forth for a few runs. Backlands are quicker and lighter, but nothing carves on hard , icy snow like a Mantra.
                          Click image for larger version

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                          • #14
                            Nice Cham. I got a pair of the Backland 102 that will be mounted when I finally settle on a binding!!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jnicol View Post
                              Nice Cham. I got a pair of the Backland 102 that will be mounted when I finally settle on a binding!!
                              This pair of Backlands are 182 cm. the Backland 95. Nice ski (even with this heavy binding on them). I have pre-cut skins for the Backlands too. If I ever get to Fernie, this winter you can try out the Outlaw binding. I hear things are icy again?

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