Bigger Stronger Faster.......

[Quadzilla]

With the recent fatalities one would have to wonder if all the technological advances in our sport especially the BC aspect is making skiers safer or not. New school beacons, Avy bags, electronic snow probes, full carbon fiber ski kits ect ect. Or, is it putting everyone including pros in more riskier terrain because now they have gear that will allow all to climb and acess places they never could before and bigger kits that ski all that are many pound lighter than ever before. So, Bigger, Stronger, Faster. IMO, I don't think the risk of being able will be balanced by increased education. There needs to be something else and I don't know what that is. Obviously experience is a key but when average skiers new to the BC can acess big terrain because they have the gear too experience may be left on the back burner. JUST SAYING

[James]

I think there is no question that the snow sciences and peoples understanding of it has not advance near as much as the gear or the number of people using it.

I have watched the evolution of free ride skiing and the movies that focus on it and have seen how the envelope keeps getting pushed and pushed by more and more people. I also think every ski movie I have seen in the last 10 years shows someone getting flushed down the mountain in some type of soft snow avalanche. While brutally sad there was no question in my mind where this was going.

The hardest part is understanding and respecting the desire, ability and work ethic it takes to push these envelopes but then having to deal with the consequences. My heart goes out to all those who knew the people who died this week.

[cesare]

Project Zero is an effort to address these issues by engaging stakeholders across different aspects of the avalanche world, including forecast centers, manufacturers and sellers of avalanche gear, and avalanche educators to create and support a consistent narrative and culture around proven, safe techniques to use in skiing the backcountry. AIARE and others are working on leveraging social media to help create this new culture.

[aqua toque]

Push the envelope all you want but sooner or later you're going to lick it.

[Todd Eastman]

After you've taken all the avi courses, gotten yer beacons, air bags, and the like...

... don't fergit yer lucky sox when ya head out into the white room!!!

[televisionary]

...There needs to be something else and I don't know what that is. ...

The only way to be completely safe from bc accidents is not to go out. BC skiers have always gotten ****ed up in the past, and always will.

[Quadzilla]

The only way to be completely safe from bc accidents is not to go out. BC skiers have always gotten ****ed up in the past, and always will.

Sure, but not really talking about "accidents" more talking about death and either AVY's or slide for lives because of increased ability to access. In years past, maybe way past. there was a learning curve and transitioning thru gear to be able. Now, credit card your way to the front of the line and avoid the learning hassle because you can.............. IMO

[mo pow]

For skiers and boarders, number of deaths hasn't risen at the same pace as "skier days", so education and gear must be having some positive effects. But in my opinion some are now willing take risks that would have been widely considered insane a few decades ago. I am not sure if they have a clear understanding of the risks, or are just sucked in by gear ads, ski movies, magazines, etc.

[riser3]

Push the envelope all you want but sooner or later you're going to lick it.

I think the issue really is insufficient postage.

[televisionary]

Sure, but not really talking about "accidents" more talking about death and either AVY's or slide for lives because of increased ability to access.

There seems to be a difference between those in your view, but I'm not seeing it.

[Quadzilla]

Statistics only work on the past, I guess my issue is what will happen in the future. For example, Split boarding is a fairly recent technology so more boarders can access bigger terrain more easially thus increasing the risk potential. Ultra light AT gear that can ski big terrain will put more skiers on bigger slopes and increase the risk potential. So add the popularity of BC skiing now, the new ski vids and some Red Bull and you can kinda see where this is going.

Is the new 20 YO Splitter going to get educated before or just go out with his buds and throw down?

[Baaahb]

With the recent fatalities ....... Obviously experience is a key but when average skiers new to the BC can acess big terrain because they have the gear too experience may be left on the back burner. JUST SAYING

You're mixing apples and oranges. If you refer to the recent fatalities discussed on another thread, they involve highly experienced skiers. IMO, there will always be fatalities involving highly experienced skiers seeking to promote themselves/their sport/their movie, because nothing is noteworthy anymore unless it has an obvious high level of danger. That's a fairly simple equation. That is not intended to sound harsh or judgmental. I respect people who risk their lives, but am not surprised when that risk overtakes them. Eliminate the risk entirely, and you eliminate an aspect of the sport.

[James]

Is the new 20 YO Splitter going to get educated before or just go out with his buds and throw down?

Come out to Loveland Pass or Berthoud pass and you will have your answer in about 10 seconds.

[James]

highly experienced skiers.

Highly skilled for sure. I think there is a certain age range where some very gifted people are very skilled but don't truly have the experience or the maturity to really balance the risk reward equation. Or they just balance it differently. I have spent the last few months trying to understand and live with the reality of that.

I don't have the skill to ski like the skiers who died. It also took me decades to get to the level I am at and someone with kids in their 40's or 50's is going to look at risk differently. So IMO someone who is very gifted and really dedicates himself to what he is doing can learn the skills a lot faster then the experience.

I also wonder if the types of slopes that are being pushed by these skiers could be managed wisely by someone like Bruce Tremper.

[tele.skier]

The odd thing about avalanche danger is that, even though there's 2 distinct choices whether to "go" or "not go" on a given route, there aren't clearly measurable results for both choices. If you decide not to ski a slope, you don't know if you would have triggered a slide or not, so there's no definitive feedback confirming the wisdom of your "No go" decision.

On the other hand, if you "go" and nothing slides, you may be predisposed to feel your judgement about the snowpack safety was correct when if fact, maybe your judgement is wrong and you just didn't ski through the slope's trigger point this trip... There are so many avy scenarios that avoid prior detection and so many results that can set a skier up to make a similar decision on a similar day that has a different result. Even if an avid BC skier learns to avoid the obvious worst avy conditions, he is still out there calculating where the snowpack issues are based on his past experience, which isn't always going to yield the same result...

IMO, that means that if a person skis in the BC long enough, eventually he will ski a slope where the likelyhood of a slide is close to his risk tolerence, and that's where his danger will lie. On days when all the known avalanche paths are sliding, experienced BC skiers see the evidence of snowpack instability and know to ski lower angle BC or inbounds lift areas. For most skiers with a few years of BC experience, the danger is going to be on days when the danger is less obvious and less predictable.

Some people wonder why the most accidents happen in moderately rated days. To me, this makes perfect sense. On high and extreme days, the danger is obvious and so it's easier to make a "no go" decision.

Last year, I ski cut a slope before a friend and I dropped in, and the whole slope slid below my cut. As much as I made a good decision to throw in a ski cut in a certain spot, I also know that a better decision would have been to have NOT gone there that day,.... I wanted the vert and the pow.... and to ski down a spot that is a waterfall in the summer... so I took a risk,..... foolishly...