Opening a New Backcountry Ski Hut on FS Land

[Baaahb]

Does anyone have an experience on opening a new backcountry hut on Forest Service land? In particular when done by an organization that does not have existing huts? I'm curious whether there are FS policies on this and what are the concerns that will drive the FS approval process. thx

[polemonium]

Lou Dawson: http://www.wildsnow.com/6106/friends...tory-colorado/

[Greg]

Baaahb: I manage a yurt on USFS land for 501(3)c ski club. The permit has existed for a while, but when I took over it was expired by many years, so I had to go through the process of a new permit. It was a relatively easy process, given that we were sort of grandfathered in, and the contact at the USFS who managed our permit was supportive of the organization. Even though we are a non-profit, we were permitted as a commercial outfitter, because I was told this was the only type of permit that was available at that time. That required some extra paperwork, like developing a business plan, etc., but it was manageable.

My impression from the process and subsequent dealings with the USFS is that the local office and person you deal with can make a big difference in if you can get something like this done, and how quickly/easily. I would suggest you try to figure out who is the office in charge of the area you are interested in and try to get a meeting with them to broach the subject. If you want to talk - not that I know anything likely to be helpful - send me a pm or an email. Good luck.

[B__]

Contact the Ranger Station wherein lies the potential hut site and try to reach the person(s) there that handles "special use" permits (most likely in the recreation department).

The next levels should escalation be necessary above the special use permit administrator would be the Recreation Staff Officer, then the District Ranger, who has authority over the rec dept. In the Tahoe Basin (if that's where it is) there are no District Rangers, but you could try to bend the Forest Supervisor's ear if it comes to that.

[teledance]

I heard of one person who had to register theirs as a hunting cabin, but it depends on the local management, good luck. Locally we had one denied because the snowmobilers fought against it.

[aqua toque]

When you get your permit and establish the facility will there be special considerations for us, your internet friends?

A naming contest thread would be a good start.

[tele.skier]

What is the forest service's required procedures to deal with human garbage generated by users of the hut, and the human waste?....

Is everything carried out on foot?

Compost toilet? outhouse? install a septic system?... What...

[chemman]

I hate to throw the book at ya but...

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/ECFR?page=browse

Almost everything you need to know is printed in those pages.

Probably 36, just a guess.

[tele.skier]

thanks chemman, As is typical, the rules don't tell you what to do, but they do tell you what you can't do...

It makes sense that if hut garbage isn't carried out by hut users, then there has to be removed by someone else at regular intervals. I am still not sure what the common method of this removal is...

The human waste rules were pretty clear if I was hiking or camping, but it seems to me that a hut that regularly houses groups of people would need a dedicated outhouse or a composting system of some sort.. I just wondered what those approved systems are... Maybe some of the people here who have multi-day hut experience will add their comments about the facilities of the huts they have visited..

[Greg]

For the yurt that I manage, we have an outhouse for human waste and each party carries out all other waste. This yurt is a low-cost, DIY operation. We do not have a caretaker other than me, and I do not regularly go up to the yurt. If someone reports a problem I will ski in and fix it. Otherwise, we have a trip or two in the summer where we clean and do repairs and cut wood. In the winter each party is responsible for cleaning the yurt before leaving and hauling out their trash.

[James]

Paging Hutguy.

[danomike]

It also depends where you plan to put it and how many similar operations are in that district's forest. If you're going to be the only ski hut in the forest (even if there are several hunting guide operations), then it should be easy. If there are a lot of other ski huts/guides in the forest, then you will possibly have to compete for a permit.

[Baaahb]

I suspect that it is much easier to get permission to put in a removeable structure like a yurt, than a permanent structure....any experiences with this?

Chemman, I suspect guidance is more likely in the Forest Service Handbook (Manual of Procedure?) than in the fed rules....

[Greg]

I suspect that it is much easier to get permission to put in a removeable structure like a yurt, than a permanent structure....any experiences with this?

Chemman, I suspect guidance is more likely in the Forest Service Handbook (Manual of Procedure?) than in the fed rules....

No direct experience. The yurt I manage has been around for a long time. Before I was handling it the FS required that it be taken down every Spring. This was a pretty big job. At some point - again before I was handling it - it was moved to a new location few miles away and we were permitted to keep it up year-round. I do not know why this changed. Even though the yurt is up year round now, it is still removable I guess. It sits on a bunch of 4x4posts that are set into the ground. Since I was not there when it was put up I am not sure, but my guess is that the posts are just stuck in dirt and not into a concrete footing. May be wrong on that though.

[chemman]

I am only guessing here but you may want to take a look here

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=a4b0a8562cf52c1e8be1648681b19d33&node=36:2.0.1.1.18.2&rgn=div6

then

http://www.fs.fed.us/specialuses/

http://www.fs.fed.us/specialuses/special_app_process.shtml

http://www.fs.fed.us/specialuses/special_com_uses.shtml

http://www.fs.fed.us/recreation/permits/forms.htm

I think the CFR is the guideline (read federal law) the FS uses to give you the right to use public owned land. You may or may not even know the CFR exists, but they do.

You may want to get a hold of these guys. They might know a little about what you are talking about here.

http://www.huts.org/