Lynx '22

[Dostie]

Disclaimer: I wouldn’t rule out “Cam moves forward from wear, cams are no longer held in ski mode, cam can pivot, something pivots the cam (ice underneath, stomping action, somethingelse).” Murphy’s Law permits this. With a few mm of travel the springs still have a lot to say, and the V3 are supposed to hold so well, accounting for claw grab, etc...

Here a technical ice substitute (two halves of a clothespin) represents snow packed hard up against the binding frame, where the cables exit. Just-so conditions might work like this. Note the claw doesn’t even need to pivot if the spring strap is held back far enough by an ice jam. Here it is without any cam stop, similar:



In the wild I think this could be made worse by snow packing against the toeside of the “legs” of the cam stop, too. More junk throughout the whole underside of the mechanism, unless it squishes out, is likely to push the whole assembly back.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get around to digesting this. You're definitely on to something here Pherick. I had this happen once on the v21 version of Lynx. It was the first time I experienced serious snow packing in the coil springs of Lynx and the claw just fell off. For me it was a one-off. Never had that happen before (or since). Shrugged it off. Great insight.

[telenerd]

Check out recent article on telemark skier! Dostie posted some info from fellow backcountry talk member!

https://www.telemarkskier.com/quirks-of-the-claw-22d-offers-more-lynx-options/

[dschane]

Some data from the road: 7 days touring, 2 days at Fernie, and 4 at Revelstoke - the beads of epoxy have prevented the cam stop from migrating forward.

I put a bead on the slick side of the main plate and one on the rough bottom to compare; both are holding strong.

But, I like the idea of a flex plate that comes down to the stop. Seems simple, provided they still ski the same.

Cheers.

[Dostie]

... I like the idea of a flex plate that comes down to the stop. Seems simple, provided they still ski the same.

Preliminary ruling - they do ski the same. Same enough. No detectable difference after half dozen runs.

re: Inconsistent step-in after skinning. I'm fairly convinced at this point that when I have trouble switching to ski mode from skinning it is because there is enough snow build up underfoot that the claw can't latch on 'cuz the snow underneath raised the butt crack above where the claw wants to be. Need to take the time to clear out ALL the snow between sole and flex plate AND whatever has clung to the bottom of the duckbutt. However, the new claw makes it easy to pull the claw onto the 2nd heel if you at least clear out the loose snow underfoot.

[dschane]

Preliminary ruling - they do ski the same. Same enough. No detectable difference after half dozen runs.

re: Inconsistent step-in after skinning. I'm fairly convinced at this point that when I have trouble switching to ski mode from skinning it is because there is enough snow build up underfoot that the claw can't latch on 'cuz the snow underneath raised the butt crack above where the claw wants to be. Need to take the time to clear out ALL the snow between sole and flex plate AND whatever has clung to the bottom of the duckbutt. However, the new claw makes it easy to pull the claw onto the 2nd heel if you at least clear out the loose snow underfoot.

Thanks for the information.

I find that, for transitions from tour to ski mode, if I move the claw forward and back 2-3 times before stepping into it, it flushes out any trapped snow/ice. It's obviously easier to do if you take your skis off for the transition but still doable with your toes locked in.

[Dostie]

Have also decided that, although the current cam stops (the indents) for the claw are generally deep enough to prevent claw grab, I still feel like it could happen. I can feel when the snow has built up enough that it could push the claw back. I don't think it will, but past experience makes me nervous that it might so I pause to clear it. It's a pain. I don't mind the minor lift, but don't want to risk the claw grab. Been thinking I want some sort of plug in there which will force that minor heel lift but prevent claw grab. I could live with it if it meant zero chance of the claw grabbing me between skinning strides.

The question that raises is, how to do that in a way that doesn't make the mode switching an inconvenience. IOW, it would probably require an extra step in the transition process going either way. Is it worth it? Can it be done with the flick of a pole? Putting it out there 'cuz I know there's some smart guys lurking here. BTS? Pherick? JTB? et al.

[jtb]

Not trying to be snarky, but I haven't spent much time on Lynx, and I gave up trying to optimize touring mode on Meidjo. Not that it can't be done, it definitely can. But the return on investment isn't there for me since TTS exists. I only use Meidjo (or Lynx if I had one) for the occasional sidecountry lap where stepping out and clearing snow is not a deal breaker.

[Pherick]

The question that raises is, how to do that in a way that doesn't make the mode switching an inconvenience.

Hard to see a way that wouldn't require getting your hands down there. I'll keep thinking on it, though.

Even the few claw grab sessions I've had came at the perfectly wrong time. It's superbly frustrating and the people on other gear just wonder what is wrong with your junk show. It would be good to know that it 100% couldn't happen.

Same with the surprise ski mode release. It would be really really nice to get that possibility out of the back of my mind on the way down.

[telenerd]

Testing some beta plates. FYI these are BETA. Not final production for next season.

Good work 22 on the newly revised plates and softer flex plates. 👍

[dschane]

Testing some beta plates. FYI these are BETA. Not final production for next season.
Good work 22 on the newly revised plates and softer flex plates. 👍

Thanks for posting. Note the tiny tabs above the cam stop (bottom plate in the picture) -- that may/should/will solve the forward migration.

[telenerd]

Thanks for posting. Note the tiny tabs above the cam stop (bottom plate in the picture) -- that may/should/will solve the forward migration.

The flex plates are way longer then stock and the end butts up against the cam stop. So if by chance the rounded tabs holding the cam stop were to splinter, then the flex plate would prevent migration of the cam. I think they nailed it on the plates.

I just need to put some laps on them and see how they hold up for spring tours.

[telenerd]

[ESM]

I have about 10 tours on these new flex plates. They have been flawless so far. They have seemed to prevent migration. I am feeling like I have experienced conditions that would have caused the problem in the previous version. I also find them a joy to descend with. To me, they definitely have a different flex pattern. They start soft and progress to a similar ending stiffness as previous versions. My feeling is they are more progressive, less linear, in the flex. The initial flex is softer than any previous version I have skied. So much so, I now feel moving the slic pin for different conditions is worthwhile. I have stayed a bit quiet on this as these are so beta and I have tended to react to fast. Time still needed but very promising. A little fresh for tomorrow, so another day and hopefully I have not just jinxed it all.

[jnicol]

So before I get too excited, or try to call 22D.... can someone explain the availability of these and the expected process?

If I am understanding correctly, a few of you managed to acquire some prototypes. Maybe by next season the rest of us common folk can acquire some... and they may be modified based on learning through the beta phase?

[mo pow]

To me, they definitely have a different flex pattern. They start soft and progress to a similar ending stiffness as previous versions. My feeling is they are more progressive, less linear, in the flex. The initial flex is softer than any previous version I have skied. So much so, I now feel moving the slic pin for different conditions is worthwhile.

This sounds like a flex that would motivate more people to migrate from 75mm to NTN. When people talk about not liking the feel of NTN it usually involves the initial stiffness. Some people also seem to like the lateral slop of 75mm but that's a little more difficult to understand.