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  • And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.

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    • Originally posted by jasonq View Post
      And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.
      Thanks be to Ullr, telemarking isn’t in the filthy olympics. The garage band of snow riding, and I’m perfectly fine with that…if there comes a day when I cannot drop a knee, I’ll just split, locking heels on skis seems like pickleballing…f dat

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      • Originally posted by jasonq View Post
        And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.
        Because telemarking is the only one of those sports that also prescribes HOW you are supposed to do the activity, i.e., telemark is skiing with a free heel. Actually, to the extent that the other sports prescribe how to do the activity, you see the same thing. Whitewater canoeing is much less popular than whitewater kayaking. And I think sport climbing is more popular than trad, but I don't know that scene at all.

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        • Originally posted by JackO View Post
          How much of the XC crowd is going to end up on Xplore? If that platform beats NTN to a T4 equivalent I’d say NTN will remain the realm of heavy telemark.
          Part of me wonders if there's somebody over at Rotafella thinking up an TTS-like system that combines the Xplore toe with NTN duckbutt.

          Last thing we need is more standards and more confusion, but if there was consensus among binding makers and boot makers maybe it could be the successor to 75mm we don't actually have now. Some kind of binding where you can use a lightweight plastic boot in either the XCD (without duckbutt) or in "downhill" touring gear (with duckbutt engaged). Or use an XCD boot in your downhill gear, with the duckbutt locked down& out or something.

          It would probably not be ideal because we already have a solution with tech toes.
          Last edited by ryandaum; 23 September 2022, 02:14 PM.

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          • Break dancing is in the Olympics
            I acknowledge that I live on the traditional territory of the Algonquin Nation

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            • Originally posted by jasonq View Post
              And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.
              The more depressing comparison for me is to snowboarding. Telemarking had a 100 year head start when snowboarding was born in the '80s. Jake Burton had to hire someone to go ski resort by ski resort to beg them to simply allow snowboarders to be allowed to ride. "Snowboarding is not a crime" was more than a cute bumper sticker. Then it made to the Olympics in '98, Shaun White has been on the cover of Rolling Stone at least twice, a zillion snowboard companies were created and since bought by larger companies. That industry has consolidated and declined a little but if only telemarking had 1/100 of the success of snowboarding...could

              If only we had the Shaun or Killian of telemarking, we would have new boots.
              Last edited by djhutch; 28 September 2022, 12:00 PM.

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              • Originally posted by djhutch View Post

                The more depressing comparison for me is to snowboarding. Telemarking had a 100 year head start when snowboarding was born in the '80s. Jake Burton had to hire someone to go ski resort by ski resort to beg them to simply allow snowboarders to be allowed to ride. "Snowboarding is not a crime" was more than a cute bumper sticker. Then it made to the Olympics in '98, Shaun White has been on the cover of Rolling Stone at least twice, a zillion snowboard companies were created and since bought by larger companies. That industry has consolidated and declined a little but if only telemarking had 1/100 of the success of snowboarding...could

                If only we had the Shaun or Killian of telemarking, we would have new boots.
                If Kasha couldn't get it done, no one will.

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                • Part of me wonders if there's somebody over at Rotafella thinking up an TTS-like system that combines the Xplore toe with NTN duckbutt.

                  It would probably not be ideal because we already have a solution with tech toes.[/QUOTE]

                  I was thinking the exact same thing.

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                  • Originally posted by jasonq View Post
                    And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.
                    Competitive kayaking and climbing have no soul. Lock your heels and you will lose yours.

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                    • Seen elsewhere on the internet:

                      "I can confirm that they (Scarpa) are actively developing a lighter weight touring boot for tele. I have held a prototype in my hand. And this prototype was not a 'rough' version. It was beautiful and very closely resembled a scarpa maestrale with bellows and a duckbutt. I wasn't able to ski in the boot but it does exist and I'm sure further iterations will be being tested this winter

                      The issue is that the boot is not meant to work with a toe cage style binding(outlaw or freeride). Scarpa Europe has been working to standardize a new NTN tech norm which is partially responsible for the hold up.​..

                      ...the standardization of the norm was a significant factor in holding up the launch of the boot. I dont know any specifics of what issues were giving them trouble."

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                      • Originally posted by bobbytooslow View Post
                        The issue is that the boot is not meant to work with a toe cage style binding(outlaw or freeride). Scarpa Europe has been working to standardize a new NTN tech norm which is partially responsible for the hold up.​..

                        ...the standardization of the norm was a significant factor in holding up the launch of the boot. I dont know any specifics of what issues were giving them trouble."
                        I wonder if Crispi is also trying to workout a boot that's part of the new standard?

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                        • Originally posted by bobbytooslow View Post
                          The issue is that the boot is not meant to work with a toe cage style binding(outlaw or freeride). Scarpa Europe has been working to standardize a new NTN tech norm which is partially responsible for the hold up.​..

                          ...the standardization of the norm was a significant factor in holding up the launch of the boot. I dont know any specifics of what issues were giving them trouble."
                          This great news and taxing news all at the same time.

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                          • Originally posted by bobbytooslow View Post
                            Seen elsewhere on the internet:
                            I don't trust that corner of the internet too much, but I find this believable. There was another comment a few months ago on that same corner of the internet from someone who claimed to have spoken with Scarpa athletes who had skied the boot, and who said it was ready to go but Scarpa had a problem that it would not work with a toe cage. I also found that comment believable since I have commented before that I think the toe cage makes it harder to make a good boot: toe cage NTN is the only telemark interface that can force such a tight bend in the front of the boot, as with 75mm the duckbill can take up some of the flex. This more recent comment is good news IMO, as I have said that I think Scarpa should ditch the toe cage for touring tele. Anyway, I think whatever Scarpa says will become the norm as they are the dominant manufacturer, but it is good that they are working with binding makers. Maybe they'll bevel the duckbutt too.... And maybe they will make it work for a wide range of foot sizes (having 27 MP feet makes things easy for me!)

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                            • I agree the comments seem believable, but at the same time, I'm curious what "doesn't work with a toe cage" actually means.

                              Does the toe lug not physically fit into the cage on an Outlaw/Freeride? Like, did something we're not thinking of necessitate that they design it this way? The F1/F3 toe lug doesn't fit into a toe cage either -- duh, it's an alpine boot -- so, likewise, did they truly just stick a bellows & duckbutt on a Maestrale mold without modifying the AT toe lug? Or maybe did they remove the toe lug entirely to save weight (like the Dynafit Speednose)?

                              Or is it more about performance? Like, it'll fit, but the boot's flex profile is built around a free-pivoting toe, so when it's clamped down in a toe cage, it's too flexible. Perhaps they've gone back to the drawingboard to make it more of a happy medium?

                              (This again shows the genius of Pierre's pivoting toe cage binding that would enable all boots to have the same generous flex profile but would come in a simpler, more durable package.)

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                              • Also, there had been screenshots floating around with someone from Scarpa saying that a new -- eco-friendly! -- tele boot would launch in September (it didn't). Here's an update:

                                Click image for larger version

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