new scarpa boot guess

[djhutch]

And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.

The more depressing comparison for me is to snowboarding. Telemarking had a 100 year head start when snowboarding was born in the '80s. Jake Burton had to hire someone to go ski resort by ski resort to beg them to simply allow snowboarders to be allowed to ride. "Snowboarding is not a crime" was more than a cute bumper sticker. Then it made to the Olympics in '98, Shaun White has been on the cover of Rolling Stone at least twice, a zillion snowboard companies were created and since bought by larger companies. That industry has consolidated and declined a little but if only telemarking had 1/100 of the success of snowboarding...could

If only we had the Shaun or Killian of telemarking, we would have new boots.

[zonca]

Break dancing is in the Olympics

[ryandaum]

How much of the XC crowd is going to end up on Xplore? If that platform beats NTN to a T4 equivalent I’d say NTN will remain the realm of heavy telemark.

Part of me wonders if there's somebody over at Rotafella thinking up an TTS-like system that combines the Xplore toe with NTN duckbutt.

Last thing we need is more standards and more confusion, but if there was consensus among binding makers and boot makers maybe it could be the successor to 75mm we don't actually have now. Some kind of binding where you can use a lightweight plastic boot in either the XCD (without duckbutt) or in "downhill" touring gear (with duckbutt engaged). Or use an XCD boot in your downhill gear, with the duckbutt locked down& out or something.

It would probably not be ideal because we already have a solution with tech toes.

[xmatt]

And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.

Because telemarking is the only one of those sports that also prescribes HOW you are supposed to do the activity, i.e., telemark is skiing with a free heel. Actually, to the extent that the other sports prescribe how to do the activity, you see the same thing. Whitewater canoeing is much less popular than whitewater kayaking. And I think sport climbing is more popular than trad, but I don't know that scene at all.

[grm]

And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.

Thanks be to Ullr, telemarking isn’t in the filthy olympics. The garage band of snow riding, and I’m perfectly fine with that…if there comes a day when I cannot drop a knee, I’ll just split, locking heels on skis seems like pickleballing…f dat

[jasonq]

And how come out of the 70's, 80's and early 90's Trio of Granola Sports (kayaking, climbing, and telemarking), only telemarking is still a patchouli skank granola sport? That alone makes me want to switch to locked heels. Hell, the others are all in the olympics.

[jasonq]

JTB, i just did a full size run on my 3D printer, including liners. send me $10000 cash and what size you want. I'm pretty busy right now, so it might take me a few years, or longer, to get them off to you. just be patient.

[jtb]

That's a sexy ass boot. Where do I buy one?

[bobbytooslow]

Oh boy jasonq your Photoshop job has hit the Facebook. I blame telemark_is_undead_

[telemark_is_undead_]

Skiing with a certain televangelist here on the east coast sporting a crispy (😉) new tele boot last spring, I was given the impression that this boot (the boot as it appears in photos on the internet or in some other more refined iteration) would be some sort of counter offering to Scarpa's new tele boot line in the near future and was slated to release the year of COVID. Consume with salt grain.

[telenerd]

I wonder if we will still be having this same discussion in 2030.

[bauerb]

Scarpa does pretty well selling non-telemark gear: climbing shoes, AT boots, Skimo racing, and outside the US they are making a dent in mountain running shoes...which demonstrates that they are wiling to invest in new products and markets that they believe will materially contribute to the future growth and revenue of the company.

[Dostie]

Scarpa is probably abiding by the 80/20 rule. 80% of their revenue comes from 20% of their customers. And when 80% (or more) of the 20% is alpine, it's easy to compute where 95% of their product focus will be.

Although it seems even less likely, I suspect that any improvement in telemark boots that address backcountry functionality will come from a new player using new technology to create something in a way that has never been done before. In the age of CAD and 3D printing somebody will figure out how to create a new telemark boot without spending $1,000,000,000 in molds. THAT will be the game changer needed to spur new boots and some competition with Scarpa which will finally get them off their risk averse arses.

Until then, garage bands rule. All praise and honor to BTS for the Michael Bolt-on duckbutt.

[bobbytooslow]

For the sake of a thought experiment: The hypothetical F1x is made for a decent amount of existing tele skiers, but represents a small fraction of the whole because it leaves out a lot of potential users by making something so specific and non-entry level. I wonder if Scarpa is thinking along similar lines.

I guess I'm not sure it has to be either/or. Like I said above, the only thing not-entry-level about Scarpa's current offerings is the price. Could they make a dumbed-down TX-Pro that retails for, say, $499? I don't know, maybe? Would this preclude them from also offering something to excite the current users (and possibly draw in XCD users)? I would hope not, but maybe?

[bobbytooslow]

Lots of good points, JackO. It's certainly easy for us to armchair QB the thing when it's not our livelihoods at stake.

How much of the XC crowd is going to end up on Xplore? If that platform beats NTN to a T4 equivalent I’d say NTN will remain the realm of heavy telemark.

It seems like the T4/Switchback scene is safe from Xplore overlap for the time being, for pretty much the same reasons this thread exists: No one is making the right boots to tour efficiently and ski hard with a free heel. You're right though, this is another large user group that the purveyors of plastic telemark could tap into. That was the thrust of this thread.

Having essentially a ‘beginners’ norm with 75mm vs. an ‘advanced’ norm with NTN seems problematic. The cost issue is absolutely real, but then there is a never ending cycle of converting people to NTN (as long as there is easily accessible 75mm gear, which should be a while). That doesn’t seem to bode well for NTNs ascendency and eventual capturing of the business, and it doesn’t monetize entry level sales for the manufacturers well. Not that I personally want that, but the boot manufacturers probably do.

You're not wrong. I just don't see a better solution given the current size of the sport and the reality of mold amortization costs, etc. (Of course increasing participation would help a ton, but that gets into the circular logic, chicken/egg thing.) Alpine skiing has the numbers to make retail entry-level ski-boot-binding setups in the $800-1000 range. Really, the TX Pro is a great entry-level tele boot in every aspect but the $800 price tag.

I suppose if the will existed, entry-level retail gear could be made. If Scarpa someday makes a new & improved TX Pro, a dumbed-down version of the current one could possibly live on (perhaps with cheaper hardware, no tech inserts, cheaper liner, etc) at a more entry-level price point. Bindings could certainly be made less expensive (and simpler, and lighter, and more durable) by eliminating the tour mechanism, just a full-time lift-serve deal. Sounds like 22D and The M might have things in the works.

Binding manufacturers making the boots feels like the holy grail of this situation. Quicker turnaround time, less bureaucracy, more innovation.

The F1x solution seems so feasible and that it would check a lot of boxes for people like us. My next thought is that 6200 people listened to Madsen’s beginner podcast just on YouTube, 1000 for the UTN one.

Indeed. As Madsen often says, the best progress would be made if it were all telemark companies driving things (rather than relying on larger multi-sport companies). But again it's the mold amortization costs making this not too realistic for any of the current players. It seems like 3D printing is still a ways off, even for alpine boots (which would be a lot simpler). Yeah it would be awesome if a smaller, tele-focused business could acquire the old F1/F3 molds (if they exist) but I'm not holding my breath.