new scarpa boot guess

[bobbytooslow]

Dang, that is a clean install. Very nice work. I can't imagine anything in that weight class from the factory looking or skiing better.

[CMbristlecone]

To save people the trouble of looking for it... The owner & the GM of Freeheel Life -- "the number one Scarpa telemark boot dealer on the planet" -- confirm that there will *not* be a new Scarpa tele boot for Fall 2023.

So in other words, if any time in the next two winters you want an NTN boot that skis & tours well, it's DIY time...

You got it! Bummer but unsurprising. Thanks for inventing bolt-ons and sharing all your boot mod wisdom here.

[bobbytooslow]

To save people the trouble of looking for it... The owner & the GM of Freeheel Life -- "the number one Scarpa telemark boot dealer on the planet" -- confirm that there will *not* be a new Scarpa tele boot for Fall 2023.

So in other words, if any time in the next two winters you want an NTN boot that skis & tours well, it's DIY time...

[mo pow]

The first half of Free Heal Life Podcast151 has some timing info. Check it out.

[JackO]

I agree completely about the limitations of weight reduction in a boot that needs to flex like a telemark boot. Keep the TX Pro scaffo with minor adjustments to improve ROM and make the cuff lighter. It really is not that complicated.

Smooth flex and soft enough for decent feel are everything when telemarking powder. So while I agree 90% with Xmatt, flex isn't the attribute to sacrifice in a touring boot. IMO.

I don't disagree here, I'm a flex lover myself. but I just want to see something come out at this point so we can move forward.

Maybe the boot bombs like Dostie has mentioned because it skis less than awesome and T2 sales boom. Maybe that moves the needle for Scarpa and Crispi and Pierre to pivot. Maybe that saves 75mm too (a joke but also a personal dream of mine). Whatever it is I say bring it on.

Oh, and it might also just be awesome

[mo pow]

Smooth flex and soft enough for decent feel are everything when telemarking powder. So while I agree 90% with Xmatt, flex isn't the attribute to sacrifice in a touring boot. IMO.

[cesare]

Good grief! Everything improves incrementally except, it seems, telemark boots. We don't need a revolution. If manufacturers could make the boots a little better every few years we wouldn't be in this situation. And maybe if they would look seriously at what we frankenboot makers have accomplished they could see how they could easily do it with parts they already have. I agree completely about the limitations of weight reduction in a boot that needs to flex like a telemark boot. Keep the TX Pro scaffo with minor adjustments to improve ROM and make the cuff lighter. It really is not that complicated.

[JackO]

^^^
This is a really solid point.

I see the problem as being we aren't going to have even 1/25 the options alpine has, so a lot of different types of skiers are putting a lot of different expectations on this new boot. Some feel that at the very least it should feel good to turn in, some feel at the very least it should tour well and not worry as much about the flex. Etc.

With 75mm boots being disco'd over time, the current NTN boots getting no or little upgrades, and then Scarpa looking like they will release one boot - not a line of boots (not to mention how long this has taken and how much anticipation has built up over the years) - the situation means that this boot is 'supposed' to be everything. And it can only be one thing. Xmatt - you might be right, maybe this just has to be a touring boot and people can deal. If Scarpa tries to make this boot a middle of the curve, 'everything' boot, nobody will be that happy.

[xmatt]

I think in alpine skiing and touring, it is understood that boots are compromises. AT gear has improved amazingly and people are skiing fast, big lines on it now, but everyone should understand that any reasonably lightweight touring gear involves some compromises in performance, safety, and durability. Those compromises get worse as the weight goes down: I've seen people ski steeps in 1kg boots, but I've also seen online reviews of those boots where it just seems accepted that after 30 days of backcountry use (not inbounds use!) parts of the boot require replacing. So, since tele also requires flex as an additional compromise, there's just no way that Scarpa is going to get superlight, and large RoM, and the same performance and durability as a TXP, and works in an Outlaw binding and a Meidjo and a TTS, especially without a much bigger R&D budget.

But I do think this sounds like overthinking it. The goal really should be a touring boot. That means no toe cage! And if the flex isn't perfect, people can deal with it by adjusting bindings or technique. Light AT boots don't have the same "progressive flex" as inbounds boots. Could you imagine putting someone who'd only skied on leathers on a pair of TRace boots and stiff bindings? They'd say it wasn't tele, but people adjust.

Baseline needs to be that the boot is <1500g and has modern AT RoM and is reasonably durable for backcountry-only use (not inbounds!). That weight target is easy...the old F3 is lighter than that, though a duckbutt will add a couple grams! Then just do the best you can within those requirements.

[mc_dubV]

Thanks for the insight Dostie. Maybe Scarpa is over-thinking it, or set their sights a bit too high? Seems like the Tx was reasonably close to the boot many people desire today.

I agree, I just want three buckle with a little more ROM and dropping a little weight would be nice. I don't need a miracle boot, the TX was close to what I want.

[mo pow]

Thanks for the insight Dostie. Maybe Scarpa is over-thinking it, or set their sights a bit too high? Seems like the Tx was reasonably close to the boot many people desire today. The first generation of 3 buckle T2's (the blue ones with the removeable power strap, prior to T2X) were a great boot for laps, hut tours, etc. And the T2X /F3 were pretty close too.

[Dostie]

Had a fresh thought on the roadblock Scarpa may be facing. I've seen what they're cooking and without giving it away there are some good ideas being proposed but in the quest to reduce weight (a backcountry inspired goal) the prototypes have sacrificed the telemark flex that, so far, only pebax has delivered. Other materials have been substituted strategically, but not without compromising the forward flex. It appears that reducing weight becomes equivalent to enhancing the alpine characteristics of the boot at the expense of the telemark. Now this isn't rocket science, and it isn't like we haven't all joked about using unobtainium but I think the reality is that's the nut of the problem. To save weight and maintain telemark flex characteristics will require a material not yet considered or developed for ski boots. I don't know the intimate details but it seems Scarpa is using known materials with mechanical modifications to achieve the goal. Maybe they need to be consulting with chemists. Or ranchers. Bring back leather with an NTN sole?

[mo pow]

Toe cage seems unnecessary for a tele touring boot. Atomic Backland vs. TxPro.

[cesare]

Also, there had been screenshots floating around with someone from Scarpa saying that a new -- eco-friendly! -- tele boot would launch in September (it didn't). Here's an update:

Wait just a moment now... somebody at Scarpa got confused between an AT boot and a telemark boot? That's not very confidence inspiring.

[Allan Fici]

serious thread drift, but... how about another crazy idea.

the meidjo heel only control vertical release, it pivots freely, and uses the red wings in the spring box for lateral release. How about a heel piece that control vertical release with something on top of the heel plateau, but allowed the heel to slide sideways freely? doesn't seem like that requires a heel fitting to me. easier with a heel fitting, sure, since all the meidjo heel really is is a typical low tech heel with the lateral release spring removed. But it doesn't seem required.

Definitely an interesting and a somewhat crazy idea here but I think that would work.
On the boot side of things Scarpa took the chicken **** path eliminating the heel tech fittings on tele boots. They let their lawyers dictate their business mission statement and for that lame ass decision they’ve lost me as a new ski boot customer. I’ll continue to hack and modify their gear that I own to make it accommodate my needs but unless they rethink the whole boot tech fitting scenarios I’m not supporting their new ski boot biz.