new scarpa boot guess

[xmatt]

Upgraded versions of these two boots would be incremental, whereas a lightweight boot with good ROM would be a game-changer for the sport.

Strong agree. I feel that there's a LOT riding on this new boot. My hope: 1450g in size 27.0, comparable RoM to a modern AT boot, skis at least as well as the old TX, ideally better. Bellows can be soft for all I care. That's doable, right? I mean, I'd love some <1100g thing, and the old F1 shows it's possible, but I know the market isn't there for it.

[bobbytooslow]

Rest assured that I have friends in low places, but I asked someone in a high place about the idea of a new tech heel standard for telemark boots (something that would ensure the boots' incompatibility with standard AT bindings) and the answer is right in line with what we've been scheming in this thread.

We are working on this subject. We have to convince our boot partners. Maybe there will be some news next year. In the meantime, ask your preferred shop to tell their distributor that you want a telemark boot with the ability to lock the heel. The design must be telemark-specific and not compatible with AT if we want Scarpa and Scott in the game. There's too much risk with the flexible sole of the telemark boot. The exact details of the interface are still in development.



Edit to add: Tin-foil hat time. This is exactly the kind of thing that could cause a company (i.e., Scarpa) to hold off on production of a new tele boot. They are on the record as saying "We want to make sure we get this right" before shelling out the big bucks it takes to bring a new boot line to market. If a big part of telemark's future is having boots/bindings than can switch hit tele/alpine, then getting it right would include having the right tech fittings in place to allow for this. If this requires new fittings to be developed, or if Scarpa wants to play wait & see if there'll be adequate demand, the new-boot timeline may have just gotten longer.

[bobbytooslow]

Telling that we are talking about what the new Scarpa boot might look like, not boots.

I think this is because the current boots are actually quite good at doing what they're designed to do.

For the skier who is primarily lift-serve, with the occasional backcountry/slackcountry endeavor, the current TX-Pro gives pretty good performance. Sure, people would tour on it more often if it had better ROM.

And the TX-Comp is great for 100% lift-serve rippers. Sure it would be nice if it had tech fittings in the toe, but there are plenty of good binding options that don't require it.

Upgraded versions of these two boots would be incremental, whereas a lightweight boot with good ROM would be a game-changer for the sport.

[Yonderville]

All good ideas, dreams are good. Constructive or out there.

Telling that we are talking about what the new Scarpa boot might look like, not boots.

So many iterations and permutations of telemark bindings right now. That’s a beautiful thing.

The incompatibility between the formats spreads the already low demand out.

But all those options are cool, I don’t want any to go.

We just need a lot more people telemarking I guess. Or to continue tinkering. Or be happy with what we have. All three together might be best.

[jasonq]

building on previous ideas...
how about scarpa makes a Mgear branded boot with the pocket for the/a heel fitting and Mgear procures the fitting from somewhere else. And Mgear sells the boots and the rear fitting. fitting comes pre installed or aftermarket, doesn't really matter. Either way scarpa did not sell a boot with a heel fitting. flying bovines before this happens.

[bobbytooslow]

Yeah, sorry about the drift, I should have started a new thread about the heel tech fittings.

You're right about the Meidjo heel, it could essentially function like a regular alpine heel in terms of upward release. Could this be done as simply or lightweight as an AT-style heel? I don't know. But it's good in that the boot manufacturers are unlikely to object.

While it's a great solution for the Meidjo and its built-in claw release, users of other binding types will likely want in on the party too. A TTS/AT hybrid (like jtb has deftly made) would see a lot of interest from the backcountry touring set.

Just spitballing here... if a whole new tech heel norm is out of the question, maybe there's an easy way to greatly increase preload on the TTS cable so that it's much harder to lift the heel. Maybe a front throw (like Superloops), or a dual-stage heel throw?

[jasonq]

serious thread drift, but... how about another crazy idea.

the meidjo heel only control vertical release, it pivots freely, and uses the red wings in the spring box for lateral release. How about a heel piece that control vertical release with something on top of the heel plateau, but allowed the heel to slide sideways freely? doesn't seem like that requires a heel fitting to me. easier with a heel fitting, sure, since all the meidjo heel really is is a typical low tech heel with the lateral release spring removed. But it doesn't seem required.

[bobbytooslow]

if Scarpa doesn't go for the tech fittings front and back that's a huge loss. I think the hybrid/frankentele world is a huge opportunity for telemark to grow and develop, add new members, keep gear progression moving.

Yes, I think this is a really good point. If 1/4 of Meidjo buyers are getting the tech heel currently, many of them are doing it based on their own research and purchasing (ie they REALLY want it). People aren't necessarily just getting talked into the full meal-deal at ski shops (unless it's a rare shop that carries Meidjo and Crispi, maybe?). If that avenue actually existed, what would the percentage be? 50%? Greater?

So, heck yeah, a complete boot/binding system that can do freeheel and occasional fixed-heel turns would probably be a big seller, and a solid way to help grow the sport (or at least keep people from fleeing the sport). But unless Scarpa has a complete change of heart, the industry needs to find another way to make the boot end of the equation easily obtainable. Hence my suggestion for a system similar to (but incompatible with) the current AT system.

[jtb]

Or mold in the mounting area, but force people to buy the insert separately, with a warning that modifying boots that didn't come with inserts voids the warranty and any assumption of liability... kind of like aftermarket auto parts sold for off road use only. IIRC they did this for some TXP's that didn't come with the insert but had an easily removable plug where one could be installed.

[bobbytooslow]

crazy idea...

Yup. I take that as a compliment.

scarpa clearly can put rear tech fittings in. And scarpa clearly can do it with an insert in the mold to allow either with or without to be made in a production run.

Yup. Which means they likely could also create and place an insert into the mold which accommodates a different heel-pin spacing.

What if scarpa sold Mgear a special boot with tech fittings with Mgear branding, and wrote the contract with Mgear that they assume all product liability. or any other company that wanted to brand a hybrid boot.

Yup, this is another good possible way forward.

[jasonq]

crazy idea...
scarpa clearly can put rear tech fittings in. And scarpa clearly can do it with an insert in the mold to allow either with or without to be made in a production run.

What if scarpa sold Mgear a special boot with tech fittings with Mgear branding, and wrote the contract with Mgear that they assume all product liability. or any other company that wanted to brand a hybrid boot.

[dschane]

I know, it sounds like a lot of work. But is there a better path forward (besides groveling on the internet)?

I don't which will happen sooner, your suggestion or lobbying every ski state to modify their current legislation that grants immunity to ski areas for ski injuries to include ski boot manufacturers who support the tech tele world with tech heel inserts. I'll get the petition started . . . .

[bobbytooslow]

The tech heel stuff raises an interesting question: Do we need a proprietary tech heel interface for telemark boots?

Sounds ridiculous, but hear me out. Scarpa won't put standard AT tech fittings in their tele boot heels anymore because people will use them in standard AT bindings with no "puck" under the forefoot, thereby causing BSL shortening, premature release, and dangerous crashes. I don't foresee that problem going away, and I don't see Scarpa pulling a 180.

But the manufacturers could agree to change the interface slightly -- maybe just a wider heel pin spacing or something -- so that it functioned the same way, but only worked in bindings purpose-built for it. Consider it an addendum to the NTN/TTN standard. Bindings sold with the new tech heel interface -- NTN, TTN, TTS even -- would then be assured to have componentry in place to prevent the bellows from flexing.

I know, it sounds like a lot of work. But is there a better path forward (besides groveling on the internet)?

[dschane]

I almost hate to admit it, but I believe that while NTN keeps you pretty locked in for alpine turns, there are times when being all the way locked in has it's place. Certainly nice to have the option! But I suppose that means your copping out a wee bit there....

Meh, whatever gets you down safely is worth its weight in platinum.

I agree with Cesare, but I would also say (and as I've complained in the past) that I am yet to find a bellowed-alpine boot that skis as well as any telemark/NTN boot. There's some about the flex, sole, etc. that isn't as progressively smooth through a deep and aggressive tele turn. So, if Scarpa makes one that is like an F1 or Alien, I'll buy that. And out of fear that they'll Tx it again, maybe I get two!

[cesare]

(Just kidding, it will surely have at least 3 buckles, zero carbon, and weigh at least 1500g.)

I agree. But if indeed that's what it is, i will be suitably underwhelmed as many of us have achieved that already by cannibalizing parts in our garages.

What ever happened to "whole new paradigm"?