new scarpa boot guess

[xmatt]

Also, there had been screenshots floating around with someone from Scarpa saying that a new -- eco-friendly! -- tele boot would launch in September (it didn't). Here's an update:

"Next winter" = show it Jan 2023, sell it Sept 2023, or launch Jan 2024, sell it sept 2024?

Hey Scarpa, you are probably paying too much attention to your elite athlete pro skiers! Since most of the people that buy boots aren't at that level, you need testing by the masses. You probably also aren't testing enough in variable snow conditions! If you'd like some testing in PNW snow by a good but non-pro tele skier, I might be willing to help you out. Since my touring partners are used to me bringing out 15 year old bellowed Scarpa AT boots, I think I can easily keep a secret....I'll just tell them your new boot is actually 10 year-old new-old-stock and none of them will know otherwise!

[dschane]

I agree the comments seem believable, but at the same time, I'm curious what "doesn't work with a toe cage" actually means.

I was thinking the same thing -- the Tx, Tx Pro, and Tx Comp all work with a cage, and two of those also work with tech toe bindings.

Eco-friendly? Probably relative to something else, but I suspect that it's really about letting the user think we're sensitive to the environment when we make our plastics.

And reddit? People actually use that to share meaningful information? Cool.

Overall, great news and thanks for sharing.

[mc_dubV]

eco friendly just means pebex renew, which they are using in many of their boots including the T2eco.

[jnicol]

"Next winter or the winter following"

Sounds promising. (sarcasm)

[Dostie]

"Next winter or the winter following"

Same net effect as tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes.

Worth noting. The program to develop a new boot line (not merely a boot) is at least five years old. Samples have been seeded since 2019, maybe even late 2018.

Smoke that.

[dschane]

Smoke that.

That pebax gave me a headache last time. I thought those T2 puke green fibers were recycled hemp seeds.

[Allan Fici]

serious thread drift, but... how about another crazy idea.

the meidjo heel only control vertical release, it pivots freely, and uses the red wings in the spring box for lateral release. How about a heel piece that control vertical release with something on top of the heel plateau, but allowed the heel to slide sideways freely? doesn't seem like that requires a heel fitting to me. easier with a heel fitting, sure, since all the meidjo heel really is is a typical low tech heel with the lateral release spring removed. But it doesn't seem required.

Definitely an interesting and a somewhat crazy idea here but I think that would work.
On the boot side of things Scarpa took the chicken **** path eliminating the heel tech fittings on tele boots. They let their lawyers dictate their business mission statement and for that lame ass decision they’ve lost me as a new ski boot customer. I’ll continue to hack and modify their gear that I own to make it accommodate my needs but unless they rethink the whole boot tech fitting scenarios I’m not supporting their new ski boot biz.

[cesare]

Also, there had been screenshots floating around with someone from Scarpa saying that a new -- eco-friendly! -- tele boot would launch in September (it didn't). Here's an update:

Wait just a moment now... somebody at Scarpa got confused between an AT boot and a telemark boot? That's not very confidence inspiring.

[mo pow]

Toe cage seems unnecessary for a tele touring boot. Atomic Backland vs. TxPro.

[Dostie]

Had a fresh thought on the roadblock Scarpa may be facing. I've seen what they're cooking and without giving it away there are some good ideas being proposed but in the quest to reduce weight (a backcountry inspired goal) the prototypes have sacrificed the telemark flex that, so far, only pebax has delivered. Other materials have been substituted strategically, but not without compromising the forward flex. It appears that reducing weight becomes equivalent to enhancing the alpine characteristics of the boot at the expense of the telemark. Now this isn't rocket science, and it isn't like we haven't all joked about using unobtainium but I think the reality is that's the nut of the problem. To save weight and maintain telemark flex characteristics will require a material not yet considered or developed for ski boots. I don't know the intimate details but it seems Scarpa is using known materials with mechanical modifications to achieve the goal. Maybe they need to be consulting with chemists. Or ranchers. Bring back leather with an NTN sole?

[mo pow]

Thanks for the insight Dostie. Maybe Scarpa is over-thinking it, or set their sights a bit too high? Seems like the Tx was reasonably close to the boot many people desire today. The first generation of 3 buckle T2's (the blue ones with the removeable power strap, prior to T2X) were a great boot for laps, hut tours, etc. And the T2X /F3 were pretty close too.

[mc_dubV]

Thanks for the insight Dostie. Maybe Scarpa is over-thinking it, or set their sights a bit too high? Seems like the Tx was reasonably close to the boot many people desire today.

I agree, I just want three buckle with a little more ROM and dropping a little weight would be nice. I don't need a miracle boot, the TX was close to what I want.

[xmatt]

I think in alpine skiing and touring, it is understood that boots are compromises. AT gear has improved amazingly and people are skiing fast, big lines on it now, but everyone should understand that any reasonably lightweight touring gear involves some compromises in performance, safety, and durability. Those compromises get worse as the weight goes down: I've seen people ski steeps in 1kg boots, but I've also seen online reviews of those boots where it just seems accepted that after 30 days of backcountry use (not inbounds use!) parts of the boot require replacing. So, since tele also requires flex as an additional compromise, there's just no way that Scarpa is going to get superlight, and large RoM, and the same performance and durability as a TXP, and works in an Outlaw binding and a Meidjo and a TTS, especially without a much bigger R&D budget.

But I do think this sounds like overthinking it. The goal really should be a touring boot. That means no toe cage! And if the flex isn't perfect, people can deal with it by adjusting bindings or technique. Light AT boots don't have the same "progressive flex" as inbounds boots. Could you imagine putting someone who'd only skied on leathers on a pair of TRace boots and stiff bindings? They'd say it wasn't tele, but people adjust.

Baseline needs to be that the boot is <1500g and has modern AT RoM and is reasonably durable for backcountry-only use (not inbounds!). That weight target is easy...the old F3 is lighter than that, though a duckbutt will add a couple grams! Then just do the best you can within those requirements.

[JackO]

^^^
This is a really solid point.

I see the problem as being we aren't going to have even 1/25 the options alpine has, so a lot of different types of skiers are putting a lot of different expectations on this new boot. Some feel that at the very least it should feel good to turn in, some feel at the very least it should tour well and not worry as much about the flex. Etc.

With 75mm boots being disco'd over time, the current NTN boots getting no or little upgrades, and then Scarpa looking like they will release one boot - not a line of boots (not to mention how long this has taken and how much anticipation has built up over the years) - the situation means that this boot is 'supposed' to be everything. And it can only be one thing. Xmatt - you might be right, maybe this just has to be a touring boot and people can deal. If Scarpa tries to make this boot a middle of the curve, 'everything' boot, nobody will be that happy.

[cesare]

Good grief! Everything improves incrementally except, it seems, telemark boots. We don't need a revolution. If manufacturers could make the boots a little better every few years we wouldn't be in this situation. And maybe if they would look seriously at what we frankenboot makers have accomplished they could see how they could easily do it with parts they already have. I agree completely about the limitations of weight reduction in a boot that needs to flex like a telemark boot. Keep the TX Pro scaffo with minor adjustments to improve ROM and make the cuff lighter. It really is not that complicated.