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my year in gear

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  • #16
    Sorry, I meant TTN
    TTN= Telemark Tech NTN.

    Dynafit Radical toe, 4 hole mount. Also works with a Plum toe, that I gather has the same mounting pattern as the Dynafit toe.

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    • #17
      I'll echo what others have said: awesome work on the bindings, genius logo (still enjoying it with my morning Joe), and glad to hear the recovery continues.

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      • #18
        And that one from Louis would solve the lack of standardization for distance between tech pins and duck butt.
        Last edited by dschane; 27 April 2021, 12:47 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by dschane View Post
          And that one from Louie would solve the lack of standardization for distance between tech pins and duck butt.
          still top secret..an early test bed

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          • #20
            Jason, do you have an AFD at the heel in your binding? Or maybe you don't even need a heel AFD because the release happens at the toe and the heel moves a relatively small amount in a release? No AFD needed at the toe because it floats on pins and toe of boot doesn't contact? No worry about friction at duckbutt? It seems like it should be relatively safe if you have both a solid toe release and the added freedom of a tele binding to lift the heel up. But I don't think anything, tele or AT, can ever be as safe as an alpine binding for the reason that there are orders of magnitude more people alpine skiing inbounds than there are using any kind of pin binding so those inbounds bindings get so much more testing.

            Btw, you probably don't need any recovery advice, but one suggestion is to "play" on skis. For example, go spin flat 360s on the snow (not in the air), going from straight run, to sideslip one way, to skiing backwards, and so on, just feeling your edges.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by telemarkmark View Post
              Superb piece of work. Sort of Meidjo, though without the complexity of the release bit (which curiously you seem to now need). And if I am correct lovely long springs, so the smooth action of a Hammerhead. Of course you can tour with it as long as you accept not getting your boot flat when skinning
              TMM, release is at the toe. TR2 is rather unique in that respect, similar to the vipec toe, but all metal and much stronger. rotates around the duckbutt. I have release torque tested it, and it is set about DIN 4.5 right now. And yes, those are Axl stiffy springs. with my favored, stiff as hell springs, forward pivot, knee to ski range, rather neutral result. pivot point is adjustable up about 2mm, down about 4mm, forward about 2.5mm and back about 12.5mm by swapping out a piece you can barely see if you look. but you do have to unmount the binding to make that adjustment.

              Originally posted by xmatt View Post
              Jason, do you have an AFD at the heel in your binding? Or maybe you don't even need a heel AFD because the release happens at the toe and the heel moves a relatively small amount in a release? No AFD needed at the toe because it floats on pins and toe of boot doesn't contact? No worry about friction at duckbutt? It seems like it should be relatively safe if you have both a solid toe release and the added freedom of a tele binding to lift the heel up. But I don't think anything, tele or AT, can ever be as safe as an alpine binding for the reason that there are orders of magnitude more people alpine skiing inbounds than there are using any kind of pin binding so those inbounds bindings get so much more testing.

              Btw, you probably don't need any recovery advice, but one suggestion is to "play" on skis. For example, go spin flat 360s on the snow (not in the air), going from straight run, to sideslip one way, to skiing backwards, and so on, just feeling your edges.
              Click image for larger version

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              XM, yes there is a AFD on the heel. see pick on early version. it is inspired by the AFD on the Rotte TRP for days past. the heel does move sideways, hence the AFD. I am not set on this design, but it works, and i have it done. yes, toe floats on the pins, no contact. Duckbutt friction is not really an issue due to the short lever arm (similar to heel in a WTR or GW or AT boot in a frame or normal alpine binding). However, i do have UHMW anti-ice/friction tape on top of the spring box for that and to prevent icing and reduce any friction there anyway. Agreed on alpine bindings. they do one thing and only one thing, release with a boot designed to be releases. And have a long history of development, and competition to make the best binding.

              and playing on skis is why i got an alpine set up. i can just cruise, work on balance, edge feel, rythm, not over turning, etc. And i can do it much longer each day. I alpined 3 days in a row, and my telemarking after that was much better.


              As for DJHutch's suggestion that i safe check early and often, especially now that it is legal, i probably won't go that direction, but am trying to distract myself while skiing instead of focusing on too much. Skiing behind others and just pacing close behind them works really well. i have to pay attention to speed, and not hitting them, and turning when they turn, which distracts and lets me ski. The other thing that seems to work well is focus on one thing at the very start of the turn and let the turn happen. for me, focusing on rebound out the turn seems to really help the next turn just happen.

              Attached Files

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              • #22
                Late to the party, sorry. Wow those came out nice. Buncha questions:

                I assume you enter just like the Meidjo 3 (with touring kit), by using the ramps atop the claw to "over-preload" the main springs momentarily. Your ramps look steeper than the Meidjos. Is this correct?

                Is the solid-backed claw required for strength? Even though the binding is meant for resort use, does snow still pack in there? I find with my Meidjos that it does, even just getting into the skis on a powder day sometimes. Could you make it an open-backed hoop and still maintain enough strength for stomp-in entry?

                Are there just 6 mounting screws (not counting the heel)?

                I've tinkered with an anti-friction heelpiece that allows the boot heel to rotate rather than translate. But is the thinking here that the rotation will happen at the duckbutt, and translation (in opposite directions) at the toe and heel?

                And -- you knew I'd ask -- how much does it weigh?

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                • #23
                  I just realized something about your design. Meidjo uses a hinged flex plate, I think primarily to apply lateral stability to the spring box. But this causes a bunch of compromises -- snow packing between the boot and flex plate, and less space under the flex plate to design an ideal snow-breaker on the ski surface (i.e. snow packing between the flex plate and ski). Plus there's the complexity of the double hinge (flex plate and spring pivot). By boxing the rear end of the U-bolt, you get some lateral stability on the spring box without needing a flex plate. You could even get a little more with an angled crossbar in front of the spring box. This allows you to model the ideal snow-breaker under the bellows.

                  Assuming the U-bolt can hold up to high lateral forces during release in this configuration, it seems like a good design choice.

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                  • #24
                    BTS,
                    yes, just like M3 w/o RSOD. yes ramps are steeper the M3 ramps. same height, shorter, but not really shorter. shorter/nor really shorter is because if you look down on the M3 claw the outline of the overhang of the claw is not the same as the outline of the duckbutt. the claw overhang is greater at the sides than the middle. So M3 ramp has to be longer horizontally to get that part past the duckbutt when stepping down. mine claw lip is the same profile as the duckbutt so doesn't need to be move back as far.

                    solid back, probably not needed for strength, but no problems so far. but i admit i have not skied in bad conditions yet. I made it solid because i can machine it out if i want later. harder to add it back. Also, i don't see why i couldn't also just remove the center of the claw entirely, so fully open. i designed it with that in mind, and most of the strength being to the outside.

                    actually current version is 4 mounting screws to the ski. I have another version with 6 mounting screws where the front 4 are the same pattern as a marker royal toe piece (squire, jester, etc).

                    yes, rotation at duckbutt means toe goes one way, heel the other, so AFD is for linear motion at heel. ideally it would be for rotation, with rotation centered at duckbutt, but linear is pretty close to that. or double ideal, the rotation for release would be about the heel. ideas on that, but will probably never build them.

                    weight, sucks. all in 700 grams. where does the extra weight come from? releative to a M3 at 480 grams, about 150 from the TR2 toe, about 40 from the springs, and about 10 from the AFD, and 20 from the riser+flex plate + spring box vs larger riser + spring box.

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                    • #25
                      JTB,
                      i think the M3 flex plate does a bunch of things.

                      it keeps the spring box from flopping about and banging you in the head when you should the skis.
                      it adds a small amount of initial activity
                      it sets the preload that allows the M3 step in to work at all
                      it adds a small amount of lateral stiffness when the boot is in the binding and heel down
                      it adds almost no lateral stiffness when the heel is raised.

                      but yes, removing it helps many things too.
                      I set the preload by instead having the spring box touch off on the riser.
                      and i made the lateral stiffness much stiffer than M3 by not having the urod run inside the springs. by doing that, the u rod is a long tight bushing. Those bushings add a lot of stiffness since they keep the u of the rod parallet to eachother, meaning it takes deformation of the metal or the u rod to move laterally, unlike M3 that has lots of free play and it is really only the springs that keep it from deflecting sideways. it is A LOT stiffer than M3 laterally by doing that. The cross piece at the back is really only icing. that said, i have thought about beefing it up and trapping it between two nuts to take it to 11.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by jasonq View Post
                        current version is 4 mounting screws to the ski. I have another version with 6 mounting screws where the front 4 are the same pattern as a marker royal toe piece (squire, jester, etc).
                        Whoa whoa whoa. You'd incorporate an alpine toepiece?!? So, like, Skyhoy NTN! I love it! Are the dimensions of the the current NTN toe lug compatible with those Marker toepieces?

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by bobbytooslow View Post

                          Whoa whoa whoa. You'd incorporate an alpine toepiece?!? So, like, Skyhoy NTN! I love it! Are the dimensions of the the current NTN toe lug compatible with those Marker toepieces?
                          I wish. i am using the same mount pattern as the marker toe because the 4 hole pattern at my favored fore/aft position interferes with the marker pattern. And on any new skis, i wanted to be able to use inserts and be able to switch between alpine and tele bindings. Not sure i will actually ever do switch between the two, but i with the change riser i can. I actually designed the riser with the rear 4 holes (rear 2 on the std 4 hole tele, and rear 2 markers) full formed in the riser. The front 2 holes the onese that interfere and are small blind pilot holes from the bottom of the riser. If i want to use the riser on a ski already mounted tele, i drill out the front hole location for tele on the riser. if i want to use it on a new ski drill out the front hole for marker. And the other option is if i want to use the riser on a ski mounted for marker and on a ski mounted for tele, drill out the front tele hole. I can then use the std 4 hole on the tele ski, and on the marker mounted ski, use the rear 2 tele holes, and the rear marker holes. So this gives me flexibility to have one riser design that works on a bunch of different skis and mount combos.

                          TX/P/C toes are not ISO alpine/tourng or GW/WTR. So they won't work, are more accurately, not designed to work in bindings like the marker ID series. I thought the F3/F1 might just work though, but also not supported as i believe scarpa said Tech only for those boots.

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                          • #28
                            Ahh, now I see. Yes, having the springs not centered on the U bolt gives you a much tighter bushing for the spring box. That's a really nice design choice.

                            I'm not 100% sure I buy the other reasons for the Meidjo flex plate. It would be easy enough to test by putting 2 locking collars on the U bolt to position the spring box correctly for step-in, and remove the plate entirely. I think the difference in activity would not be noticeable, but the difference in lateral stiffness (heel down) would be. Like, big enough to risk bending the U bolt, since it only touches the spring box at two places, and under a lot of leverage.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by jtb View Post
                              Ahh, now I see. Yes, having the springs not centered on the U bolt gives you a much tighter bushing for the spring box. That's a really nice design choice.

                              I'm not 100% sure I buy the other reasons for the Meidjo flex plate. It would be easy enough to test by putting 2 locking collars on the U bolt to position the spring box correctly for step-in, and remove the plate entirely. I think the difference in activity would not be noticeable, but the difference in lateral stiffness (heel down) would be. Like, big enough to risk bending the U bolt, since it only touches the spring box at two places, and under a lot of leverage.
                              My thoughts also. I believe the tech toe adds so much stiffness than the spring box, it does not need the flexplate. Probably wrong as Pierre probably tried this. But if you accept this, you can then make it so the whole spring box unclips for long climbs. On the other hand I have wondered how a Meidjo would ski with a Lynx like flexplate

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                              • #30
                                honestly, i think the flex plate was originally there more for keeping the spring box from flapping about when on a pack and hitting you in the head when shouldering skis and for looks than any functional reason. It should help a little with the RSOD entry method, but likely not much.

                                with the M3 there has to be a way to preload the springs and the flex plate was there already.

                                and yes, without the flex plate, one direction for a tour mod on my binding would be changing it up so the tour mode is spring box in my pocket.

                                and i have wondered if i should make a lynx - TR2 for tour instead. likely lighter, and i think the lynx claw will work for the pivot for TR2 release. and i can just flip the claw down for tour mode (repeatedly since i know in my snow it will auto re-engage).

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