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  • Meadow skippers, take note

    https://scandinavianoutdooraward.com...ree-a-p-s-gtx/

    Interesting?

  • #2
    Very very interesting!

    interesting how they had the ‘tech’ pins on the boot. Forcing an incompatibility with existing tech.

    Not sure what will provide the resistance for meadow skipping and if the boot is up to it, but looks very finished. If it actually works I dare say I’d be in!

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    • #3
      Interesting. Boa closures, this would be cool to set up with a fishscale ski. But I don't know how much control one would have descending, over hard, icy snow or deeper windslab powder with those light boots?

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      • #4
        Can I be a beta-tester? I'll see how well I can drive my vector bc's!

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        • #5
          I think the intriguing thing about this binding is the bumper. NNN BC has the bumper at the boot toe, but this one puts it back from and under the front of the boot. Will that make a difference? Bottom line, for an XCD boot can the new sole be stiff enough downhill performance and yet allow good stride and glide. The pins will clearly stiffen up the toe interface.

          Anyway kudos to Rottefella for coming up with something new.

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          • #6
            Asnes seems to be onboard - https://www.facebook.com/asnes1922/

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            • #7
              When I first started backcountry skiing a long time ago my kit was NNN BC and that was my only setup for three years. I had just met my wife and she also got a NNN BC setup too. We went out a lot and worked for a long time on just making a turn. We did get better and better especially Lynn who could tele turn down moderate slopes. I used to have a bunch of pics but I had a computer crash and lost all my data. The problem for us especially me was that we didn't actually out grow the gear but the gear was continually breaking. Also we met Ed and once skiing with him we had to step up our gear as he was dragging us up big mountain and big tours.

              Now, looking at this new gear, it seems to address all the problems of the NNN BC. So a simplier toe attachment and boots which looks to be stiffer soles. I personally think under the right skier this setup will have way more chops than meadow skipping.

              OK Bobby, you want to compete with the Skimo race crowd, here is your ticket right out of the box............
              "Just say no to groomed snow"

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              • #8
                I started on 50mm three pin, and made my first turns on them on corduroy slopes at the west point academy slope. When the ski would load up too quickly, my boot would fold up and I'd go over the handlebars. I spent an entire evening doing that while my friend had 75mm and stiffer boots and he was making turns without any problems.

                This new system looks laterally more rigid, but it's a true free heel connection, plus it looks like a more free pivoting connection than a duckbill would be. Why wouldn't that make it similar to skiing a tech binding without the aid of a claw or heel cable attachment? What keeps your heel planted? strong technique?? because that would seem to be required for a descending steeper pitches where the forces are greater due to skier mass and inertial force....

                I would say, more powerful meadowskipping definitely, but I wonder how many tele guys would like making turns without any boot/binding leverage at all. Even a leather 75mm duckbill boot should have more boot/binding leverage than this binding/boot combo if I am seeing it correctly...
                Last edited by tele.skier; 9 January 2021, 10:53 AM.
                the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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                • #9
                  The more I look at this, the more I remember the patent diagrams from several years ago. I can't seem to locate them now, but it would be interesting to see this come to fruition.

                  Cause what the world needs now, is another binding system, like I need a hole in my head. (apologies to Cracker)

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tele.skier View Post
                    I started on 50mm three pin, and made my first turns on them on corduroy slopes at the west point academy slope. When the ski would load up too quickly, my boot would fold up and I'd go over the handlebars. I spent an entire evening doing that while my friend had 75mm and stiffer boots and he was making turns without any problems.

                    This new system looks laterally more rigid, but it's a true free heel connection, plus it looks like a more free pivoting connection than a duckbill would be. Why wouldn't that make it similar to skiing a tech binding without the aid of a claw or heel cable attachment? What keeps your heel planted? strong technique?? because that would seem to be required for a descending steeper pitches where the forces are greater due to skier mass and inertial force....

                    I would say, more powerful meadowskipping definitely, but I wonder how many tele guys would like making turns without any boot/binding leverage at all. Even a leather 75mm duckbill boot should have more boot/binding leverage than this binding/boot combo if I am seeing it correctly...
                    Well, this is a finesse game for sure but looking at this gear, it would have appeal for beginners and aggressive beginners too. Then, you would have advanced XC skiers looking to step up and it would appeal to them. Lastly, high end skiers like Bobby who want to compete with skimo racing and this would do that if it were allowed.

                    This vid is a recreational skier and shows that NNN BC works. A high end skier with XC and telemark background would take this new gear to the next level.


                    "Just say no to groomed snow"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Quadzilla View Post
                      OK Bobby, you want to compete with the Skimo race crowd, here is your ticket right out of the box............
                      I think it has potential, actually. Not for true ski mountaineering -- with actual, like, mountaineering -- but for on-piste fitness-skinning. I don't believe you need a full rigid boot for corduroy, especially if you have narrow skis and don't need much leverage (no threadjack!)

                      In some ways it's like the ATK Newmark -- all the "business" is contained in the toepiece -- but it uses a much more reliable compression "spring" for resistance rather than bars that get pried up every turn.

                      I experimented with something similar -- surprise, surprise -- but with actual metal springs being compressed rather than an elastomer. (I wonder if future iterations will offer a more robust compression unit, with springs.) The real key to making it work, though, is having a perfectly-angled face on the front of the boots to squarely apply force to the elastomer/spring unit. Easy to do with Rottefella's budget, not so easy for a guy in his garage trying to modify some old T3's. I'll dig for it later, but there is a Rottefella patent for something with real springs. It had a lot of linkage and attached to the boot with a complicated bar/latch thingie. The precisely-angled face is much better.

                      I also think they'd succeed for on-piste fitness-skinning because in theory you're always on snow, and thus less likely to damage the pins like you might with true backcountry travel. Maybe a slightly beefier cuff would be nice. Maybe it's time to cut up some pickle barrels again!

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                      • #12
                        nice tele turns in that video Quad posted

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Quadzilla View Post
                          Lastly, high end skiers like Bobby who want to compete with skimo racing and this would do that if it were allowed.
                          High end? Hey, recreational isn't legal in AZ till March...

                          Yeah, I was wondering the same exact thing. Several "skimo" races have been "ruined" by guys showing up on nordic gear and crushing everybody. So most have rules now requiring essentially regular AT-style gear. But this new Rottefella setup kinda blurs that line between the two.

                          The point of the rule truthfully is to minimize gear breakage and, thus, rescues. Depending on how burly this setup proves to be, a pretty good case could made for its fair inclusion in "skimo" races.

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                          • #14
                            That skier makes some great turns on that gear,... but the snow looks pretty friendly and the hill is not very steep. Forces are not excessive because he's not really developing a lot of inertia so he doesn't need to resist the fall line powerfully. He's just comfortably steering and carrying the speed from that pitch. That guy has very good form in case you didn't notice. His stance is pretty tight and his uphill foot is not an unweighted outrigger to balance against. He's driving both skis comfortably from the looks of the video.

                            To Bobby: How can a guy win a skimo race on nordic gear? Isn't their a significant downhill leg that would cripple a guy's chance of winning on nordic gear?
                            Last edited by tele.skier; 9 January 2021, 12:19 PM.
                            the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

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                            • #15
                              Well, sure, I have actually looked at the Skimo race rules and it specifically calls for a locked heel and no fishscales. Might not allow disposable skins either. I think they knew from the beginning that skilled XC racers on modified NNN BC gear would crush the AT skiers. For what I see and read about the races are mostly at resorts, the sanctioned ones. Now, distance endurance racing is different, probably classes as I think XC dominates those too.

                              Anyway, this new gear looks like more performance and more durability that the gear I used to have. Might have a better chance to get new people into freeheel touring as opposed to bigger and more $$ than new school telemark gear.
                              "Just say no to groomed snow"

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