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  • #16
    Danno,

    Not a perfect answer for you. Axl is shifted from Lynx, but you can see that the probability of a conflict is high. Stop being so cheap and get a 22D binding. It may take a bit of time searching, but you will find what you need before the snow drops. And besides, you'll need a permission slip (a reservation with the chairlift) to try them anyway.

    Attached Files

    ain't no turn like tele!

    Comment


    • #17
      The fact that the dead spot bothers someone indicates their reliance on binding generated leverage. I like the dead spot feel myself because I don't expect the binding to help me pressure the ski, and I'm well centered enough that I don't feel the need to balance myself by leaning into a powerful spring in order to stay in a stacked position. It's like any other binding, the skier adjusts to the forces it generates and uses the appropriate technique. Certainly there are many skiers who can't ski a very neutral binding as well as those who just prefer the training wheels effect of powerfully active bindings.... I have my own training wheels for resort skiing, my Orange Evo boots of death. They are huge training wheels...

      Freerides lack the activity that later NTN bindings offer... If someone asks me which binding to buy because they are switching to NTN I always answer, "outlaw", because that powerful activity is more familiar to 75mm bindings of the previous binding era, and it's easier to switch to a binding that feels similar to the binding used in the previous system.

      I think Dostie's words are conflicting and both true. Getting a 22D binding is a good idea, but this season may be a coming nightmare of masks, reservation skiing, and 6 foot apart lift lines feeding single people onto high speed quads... so maybe just mounting what you have isn't such a bad choice...
      the fall line is your friend.... resistance is futile

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by tele.skier View Post

        I think Dostie's words are conflicting and both true. Getting a 22D binding is a good idea, but this season may be a coming nightmare of masks, reservation skiing, and 6 foot apart lift lines feeding single people onto high speed quads... so maybe just mounting what you have isn't such a bad choice...
        I'm fighting the urge to get some new gear, but definitely holding back until the resort actually opens. It's gonna be weird to say the least. And, unfortunately, we don't have any backcountry options in the mid-Atlantic. It's 90% manmade snow at the small resorts around here.

        That said... OP: Keep the Freerides and ski 'em until you break 'em. They are great bindings that take a little getting used to. I remember being a bit more tippy-toed on them, but rather enjoyed the small dead spot. They also tour just fine despite what most people complain about here and the tour mechanism was always really solid for me. It has a really satisfying spring action when you pop in and out of tour mode. You probably won't want to take them on all-day epics just because of the weight.

        Lastly, I've moved bindings around skis and really have a hard time noticing much difference. Maybe my skis just have big sweet spots, idunno, but I think people make WAY too much fuss about where to exactly mount a binding. I had Freerides (pink plates) and Outlaws on the same pair of skis (Moment Jaguar Sharks), and didn't have problems with mounting holes.
        Last edited by stec06; 27 September 2020, 01:40 PM.

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        • #19
          Here you go... same Jags drilled for Freerides and Outlaws.

          Comment


          • #20
            stec 06
            Off topic, but saw your avatar with the old Rapid Transits. Loved that ski. Here it is with my old 7-tm and Garmont Ener-G boots, skiing at Jay Peak
            Click image for larger version  Name:	Ray on Rapid Transits.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	3.56 MB ID:	103956

            Comment


            • #21
              Cheap fix: mount cutting board riser using old holes; mount any ol' binding you want on cutting board riser
              Less cheap; get a B&D adapter plate

              Comment


              • #22
                Different opinion on Freedrides.

                (1) They are too active. More precisely, they have too much resistance to heel lift once you get past that initial "dead spot". It should be possible, even if not as efficient, to tour uphill in ski mode in a tele binding, but it's really not possible in Freerides. I had a problem with getting the spring tension low enough for my liking without pre-releasing while skiing since they are set in the same way. Meidjo is way smoother and can be set for less resistance at higher heel lift as I like (or if you prefer, it can be made much more resistance, your call).

                (2) While they are heavy for touring, in certain settings they work great. Anything which requires lots of transitions, especially short hiking stretches across gaps in snow, will benefit from the ease of transition between modes and easy on/off (even easier than an alpine binding in some ways, in terms of confidence in getting in). I did once tour the same tour back-to-back on two days on spring snow with a lot of rock patches, and after skiing it on a tech toe the first day, I chose the Freerides the second day for exactly this reason.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Paul Lutes View Post
                  Cheap fix: mount cutting board riser using old holes; mount any ol' binding you want on cutting board riser
                  Less cheap; get a B&D adapter plate
                  This is a helpful alternative answer. And tele.skier's first post was also a helpful answer, if I had the skis in hand (but I don't yet, plus I'd love to have an answer before pulling the plate from the other pair of skis).

                  But for many of the rest, well, it's the internet and you get what you pay for, I guess. Here are things I know, all of which are utterly irrelevant to what I am asking about:
                  1. Outlaws will be better than my 12 year old Freerides (I'll take this one on faith, never having skied them).
                  2. Freerides are heavy for touring, and not a true free pivot (very true).
                  3. Many feel like Freerides don't ski all that great, but some feel like that isn't the case (differing opinionz!).
                  4. I should somehow have more money (I wholeheartedly agree with this, but my bank account has not yet complied).

                  Cannot argue with any of those points, and may have missed some additional ones. What some of you are apparently missing is that Freerides, the very old ones with the metal swap plate, are the bindings that I actually have in my possession, and I do not have the means to make other bindings miraculously appear. I will have to give up on the free skis if the only option is for me to buy Outlaws. Because then, you see, the free skis kinda cease to be free in that circumstance.

                  So here are the things I am still wondering (and if I missed an actual answer in here, my apologies):
                  5. This page: https://earnyourturns.com/wp-content...12_comparo.pdf references Freerides > 2012, but since my Freeride plate is the original metal one, circa 2008 or 2009 maybe, I don't know how/if that mounting pattern differs. Does anyone know?
                  6. My binding plate has 3 positions for placing the binding on the plate, could I mount the metal plate so as to miss the 22D insert holes, but then position the binding forward or back to make up for that?

                  Note that nothing in numbers 1-4 provide answers to 5 & 6.
                  Last edited by Danno; 28 September 2020, 01:18 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I tried to find the answer to 5 and was unsuccessful. WRT 6 I can't claim to know the answer without knowing what the mounting pattern is for the first generation Freeride. And I don't know how far apart your three options are. But in principle that should give you some measure of flexibility.

                    While you are still not in possession of the skis, the 22 Designs mounting pattern is a known standard. And you have your plates so you know that pattern. Why not get a piece of graph paper with 1/4 inch grid and mark the 22 designs pattern and boot center line on it and then lay the plate on that and see how much you will have to move the mount to avoid the conflict and what your three options do relative to the boot center line on a 22 Designs mount. You really don't even need graph paper to do this. It just makes it easy to lay out the 22 Designs pattern.

                    The 22 Designs pattern is a 1.5 inch grid. I realize that you have an 8 mm discrepancy because you don't actually know what binding was on the skis but you could mark both boot center lines to see your whole range of options before the skis arrive. You got this.
                    Last edited by cesare; 28 September 2020, 03:52 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Danno,

                      Did you download the PDF I attached to my last post? That gives you what you need to know for overlap with 22D pattern.

                      ain't no turn like tele!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Danno View Post
                        ....so as to miss the 22D insert holes...
                        The creature in the sky
                        Got sucked in a hole
                        Now there's a hole in the sky


                        The answers you seek can all be found in music videos.




                        Originally posted by Danno View Post
                        Note that nothing in numbers 1-4 provide answers to 5 & 6.
                        5 and 6 are addressed at 2:55. Then 7.



                        Last edited by aqua toque; 28 September 2020, 06:30 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Danno View Post

                          This is a helpful alternative answer. And tele.skier's first post was also a helpful answer, if I had the skis in hand (but I don't yet, plus I'd love to have an answer before pulling the plate from the other pair of skis).

                          But for many of the rest, well, it's the internet and you get what you pay for, I guess. Here are things I know, all of which are utterly irrelevant to what I am asking about:
                          1. Outlaws will be better than my 12 year old Freerides (I'll take this one on faith, never having skied them).
                          2. Freerides are heavy for touring, and not a true free pivot (very true).
                          3. Many feel like Freerides don't ski all that great, but some feel like that isn't the case (differing opinionz!).
                          4. I should somehow have more money (I wholeheartedly agree with this, but my bank account has not yet complied).

                          Cannot argue with any of those points, and may have missed some additional ones. What some of you are apparently missing is that Freerides, the very old ones with the metal swap plate, are the bindings that I actually have in my possession, and I do not have the means to make other bindings miraculously appear. I will have to give up on the free skis if the only option is for me to buy Outlaws. Because then, you see, the free skis kinda cease to be free in that circumstance.

                          So here are the things I am still wondering (and if I missed an actual answer in here, my apologies):
                          5. This page: https://earnyourturns.com/wp-content...12_comparo.pdf references Freerides > 2012, but since my Freeride plate is the original metal one, circa 2008 or 2009 maybe, I don't know how/if that mounting pattern differs. Does anyone know?
                          6. My binding plate has 3 positions for placing the binding on the plate, could I mount the metal plate so as to miss the 22D insert holes, but then position the binding forward or back to make up for that?

                          Note that nothing in numbers 1-4 provide answers to 5 & 6.
                          I answered your question. You'll be fine and should have plenty of space to mount the Freerides over the 22 Designs pattern.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by chamonix View Post
                            stec 06
                            Off topic, but saw your avatar with the old Rapid Transits. Loved that ski. Here it is with my old 7-tm and Garmont Ener-G boots, skiing at Jay Peak
                            Click image for larger version Name:	Ray on Rapid Transits.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	3.56 MB ID:	103956
                            Skis in the avatar are actually Scott Cascade 110s. I guess they have similar top sheet colors.

                            Danno, I answered your question! You'll have plenty of space to mount the Freerides over the 22 Designs pattern... I've done it before. And, again, they tour just fine and I honestly never felt limited in any way by the ROM in tour mode.

                            Scott Cascades:

                            IMG_20190113_090137.jpg
                            Last edited by stec06; 28 September 2020, 07:11 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by xmatt View Post
                              Different opinion on Freedrides.

                              (1) They are too active. More precisely, they have too much resistance to heel lift once you get past that initial "dead spot". It should be possible, even if not as efficient, to tour uphill in ski mode in a tele binding, but it's really not possible in Freerides. I had a problem with getting the spring tension low enough for my liking without pre-releasing while skiing since they are set in the same way. Meidjo is way smoother and can be set for less resistance at higher heel lift as I like (or if you prefer, it can be made much more resistance, your call).

                              (2) While they are heavy for touring, in certain settings they work great. Anything which requires lots of transitions, especially short hiking stretches across gaps in snow, will benefit from the ease of transition between modes and easy on/off (even easier than an alpine binding in some ways, in terms of confidence in getting in). I did once tour the same tour back-to-back on two days on spring snow with a lot of rock patches, and after skiing it on a tech toe the first day, I chose the Freerides the second day for exactly this reason.
                              Based on limited experience with Freerides, I tend to agree with (1), though "activity" may not be as accurate as stiffness, or it's all semantics. I learned and spent years on Switchbacks and then X2s. I didn't, and don't, like much activity. The instant engagement of a lightly active and consistently soft and smooth flexing binding is what Outlaw is to me. Yes, you can crank the dial and/or use stiff springs to make it feel like HH5, but you can also dial it back to HH2.5/3 (my spot) or, by removing the inner yellow spring, dial it back to HH1.

                              For touring, the free pivot of the Outlaws is an enormous improvement over the Freerides. Nothing, of course, in the NTN world tops NT tech. Outlaws are easier for transitions and perhaps Freerides are even easier, valid point.

                              That said, here, I get the desire to stick with $0 Freerides (even if I'd personally sell them for $25 to start saving ).

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by stec06 View Post
                                Danno, I answered your question!
                                The answer?!

                                He can't handle the answer!

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